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Post by uncleal on Jun 11, 2008 8:43:33 GMT -5
Last December, I returned to powerlifting after a 37 year hiatus and have been pleasantly surprised at how much power I've maintained in some areas while equally disturbed how much I've lost in others.
For some reason, I'm actually gaining strength on the deadlift, while losing it on the bench press. Here are the stats:
Age 24 Bench Press: 2.0 x bodyweight (280 @ 142 lbs) Deadlift: 2.6 x bodyweight (380 @ 142)
Age 61 Bench Press: 1.6 x bodyweight (250 @ 158) Deadlift: 2.6 x bodyweight (415 @ 158)
Since my rack pull has gone up since my last meet (100% RAW Masters' Nationals in March), I know I can improve on the deadlift. In the same time frame, I've appeared to have lost a few more pounds on the bench press. (By the way, my squat is not what it was but I'm gaining ground every workout and feel I will meet or exceed previous PRs.)
Are you guys having pretty much the same experiences? Anybody know if it's normal do continue to do well in the pull while losing ground in the push? Yea, yea, I know at some point everybody succumbs to aging, but I'm not going to "go softly into that good night" just yet...at least not until I can match that incredible deadlift record Rich Huchinson set last month. Can't believe a 161 lb guy in the 65-69 class pulled 450 raw! If any of you know Rich, tell him I want to shake his hand.
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Post by chancey on Jun 11, 2008 10:56:06 GMT -5
I just turned 40 so I can not offer the perspective that you want but I still beleive at my age I am still getting stronger. Of course I am carrying an extra 75lbs of body weight and that has helped to some extent.
I admire your drive and not going "softly". I hope at 61 I am still going strong as you are!
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Post by angrytomato on Jun 11, 2008 11:29:18 GMT -5
AL, AL, AL, AL, COME TO MAC TONITE OR TOMORROW AND LET'S TALK. I BELIEVE A FEW SUBTLE CHANGES IN THE BENCH ROUTINE MAY BE ALL THAT IS NECESSARY. YOU ARE ONE OF MY HEROES TO BE ABLE TO PULLING AND PUSHING THE NUMBERS YOU DO IN YOUR 60'S. I TRULY BELIEVE YOU ARE OVERTRAINING THE BENCH AND THAT IS WHY THE NUMBERS ARE GOING DOWN, DUDE, I WATCHED YOU TRAIN LAST MONTH AND YOU PUT THE YOUNGER GUYS TO SHAME!!! I THINK YOU ARE DOING TOO MUCH EACH WEEK IN YOUR BENCH. LET US GET TOGETHER BEFORE THE MEET ON THE 29TH. IT COULD BE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS OPENING YOUR GRIP BY A FINGER WIDTH OR CUTTING DOWN ON ALL THE ACCESSORY WORK YOU ARE DOING ON BENCH DAY. I FOR ONE FIGURED OUT I WAS OVERTAINING ON DEADS AND CUT DOWN AND THE NUMBERS BEGAN CLIMBING SO JUST MULL THAT OVER TILL WE CAN TALK. TAKE CARE KISSEL
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Post by uncleal on Jun 11, 2008 15:09:24 GMT -5
I don't usually train that hard, Brian. When you saw me, I was trying to impress those HOT women on the Canadian rowing team who were working out near us. The decline has been steady for four decades -- from 280 in my twenties, to 265 in my forties, to 250 now. I was just wondering what others have experienced.
Hope we can get together tomorrow, big guy.
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Post by angrytomato on Jun 12, 2008 8:12:20 GMT -5
AL, I ACCIDENTALLY DELETED YOUR PHONE CALL, I AM A DINOSAUR IN THE COMPUTER AGE AND MY DAMNED FINGERS ARE TOO BIG FOR THE LITTLE ITSY BITSY PHONE PAD. SO I WILL BE WORKING BENCH TONITE AT MAC FROM 6 TO ABOUT 8 PM, JUST STOP BY AND SAY HELLO, BRING THE WIFE IF YOU LIKE, MY WIFE WILL BE THERE. I JUST WANTED TO TALK TO YOU AND SEE WHERE YOU ARE HAVING PROBLEMS IN THE BENCH. AND IF YOU LIKE YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY OUT THE NEW TEXAS POWER BAR I JUST BOUGHT!!! AND THE TEXAS DEADLIFT BAR I JUST PURCHASED AS WELL. IF YOU ARE GONNA PLAY THIS GAME YOU NEED THE RIGHT TOOLS!!!!! SIMPLE THINGS FOR A SIMPLE MAN! LATER KISSEL
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Post by joebear on Jun 12, 2008 19:01:25 GMT -5
Hey Fellas -
My .02 -
I am going to be 41 in a few weeks, and I am at my all time best overall strength . When I was younger and bodybuilding I definitley looked better, but I trained differently . Now I do more of a powerlifting routine- ( I still do some bodybuilding stuff though )
I am confident that at 50 I will be bigger / stronger than I am right now . I think it is definitley a mind set . I don't have the wind now for sure that I had when I boxed in my 20's, but I am positive I could get it back . I believe "muscle memory" is for real.
Granted I didn't take 37 yrs. off, but I believe where your mind goes your body goes - or CAN go I should say
: )
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jp
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Post by jp on Jun 13, 2008 2:34:21 GMT -5
Gentlemen....this is all BS.....as you age, you do lose a certain amount of strength and size. I cannot do today at 46, what I did at 36, 26 or even 16. To say you're as good today as you were twenty years ago, or ten or whatever, is not reality. Sure you can feel young in the mind and that's all good, but the reality is that no matter what you want to feed your mind, you're aging everyday regardless and no you're not as good as you used to be....LOL!! Get over it....LOL!! The older I get the better I was....there is truth to that. No matter how hard I train and try I cannot do some of the same things I did 10 or 20 years ago......lets get a grip guys, huh?? You guys are killin' me.....
John =)
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Post by chancey on Jun 13, 2008 5:39:29 GMT -5
I feel sorry for you because I lift more weight today than I have ever. I have increased strength over the years and I have logs to prove it. And I certainly lift a helluva lot more than when I was 16. Look to the best powerlifters and strongman of the world - there not all younguns! But who knows maybe now that I've hit 40 everything will start falling apart. I doubt it though.
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Post by 70plus on Jun 13, 2008 8:08:59 GMT -5
Big difference between 40 and 60 as far as losing strength. The one thing about powerlifting is that endurance is not as much of a factor as in other sports. I have improved my bench by about 45 lbs in my 60's. Two reasons - technique and smart training. I bench heavy once per week and that is it. I do singles with 70-80 percent of my present pr. These singles are done at both normal and close grip. Then very heavy rows - and front and rear delt work also heavy. Finish with Pull Ups and Dips I cannot comment on the other lifts as I have a bad knee - but from what I have heard the last lift to decrease is the Dead Lift - someone said it is because us Old Guys are used to getting on and off the Pot - oh well
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Post by joebear on Jun 13, 2008 8:28:55 GMT -5
I gotta agree with Chancey - "liars figure but figures don't lie" - I mean numbers, and my numbers are better now than they were when I was 21- ( 20 yrs. ago ) I can bench more,squat more- ( never have liked DL)
I am not a genetic freak by any means either . I know there comes a day when progress will stop, but I know too many guys in their 50's that are pure animals and if they can do it- so can I .
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Post by ironwarrior275 on Jun 13, 2008 9:46:41 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]"Gentlemen....this is all BS.....as you age, you do lose a certain amount of strength and size. I cannot do today at 46, what I did at 36, 26 or even 16. To say you're as good today as you were twenty years ago, or ten or whatever, is not reality." [/glow]
John,
Reality my friend is what you perceive. You are only limited by your own imagination. We are living in a time of pioneers...regarding the level of strength and muscle that a human can attain & maintain as we age. Never before in the history of the World has man been strength training and developing the way we have over the last 40 -50 years. Again...please note the word NEVER. When people are dealing with something that has never been done or is only now showing the possibility of being done there have always been and always will be skeptics. (John) However...thank God for today’s technology...and the means of mass communication. I am referring to the Internet and specifically YouTube. Now even the most skeptical, (John) can watch history unfold in front of them from home.
John...did you even watch the video; I posted entitled 40+ Deadlift Motivational Video. If you haven't I would encourage you or anyone else to take just a minute and have a look. The back story is this. I've been lifting now for over 32 years. I've been told since the beginning by individuals like John, that my strength is limited. That if I want to be strong...I'll need to take drugs, use gear, or work out 5-7 days a week forever. If I don't...they say what's the point...you will just lose what muscle you've developed. You'll just have fat cover your muscle and you'll have to stop training...because...well you know we all do!
The nay Sayers...have said, well lifting is fine...but once you're out of High School you'll stop...or...Once you join the service you'll stop...or...Once you get married, you'll stop...or...Once you have kids you'll stop...or Once you get in your 30's you'll stop...or...Once you get in your 40's you'll stop...etc. etc...etc.
Here is my reality, (John) I'm 45 years old. I'm stronger now than any time in my whole life. Meaning (John) I haven't peaked. I'm still setting PR'S. This is reality...and not because I haven't lifted huge weight before over my 32 years...my records and lifting accomplishments can speak for themselves.
Years ago...when I started my physical fitness journey...I weighed in at 110 lbs. I now weigh a sleek 260 lbs. No Drugs, No Gear. I'm a combat veteran, Married for over 25 years. I have two great kids that are 24 & 20. I've had many injuries, but I've trained through them. I had many trials & tribulations...but I've survived them. My life has balance and I've kept logs for over 20 years. My oldest log book in my possession is from 1986. So when I tell you I'm stronger now...then ever before, it isn't an accident or I just lucked out. I've been developing a plan, testing my theories on myself. A pioneer that believes as we age...we can through proper diet, exercise and core strength training...maintain a high degree of muscle mass and do what others would think of as unthinkable! This will be my course until the Lord calls me Home!
I am not the only pioneer...
Fred Peterson at the young age of 70 on May 17th in a WABDL Meet deadlifted 650 lbs. RAW. In 2000 Fred had done at the age of 62 a 650 lb. deadlift RAW with the AAU. He did not set a new PR...But he is still setting World Records as he advances through the Masters Ranks. Who would have thought or even supported Fred back in the 50's when he was a young adult, if he had told them, "hey I'm going to keep with this lifting thing...and when all of you are sipping your food through a straw...or are complaining of back pain...I'm going to deadlift off the ground...650 lbs. They would have (JOHN) said Fred you're nuts. You'd have a better chance at going to the moon!
Brad Gillingham at age 40 set a new PR and Masters World Record in the deadlift of 856 lbs. Key word here is PR or Personal Record. He got stronger friends. He did not settle. He devised training that worked and he listened to his body. What do you think his friends in the 80's would have said to Brad, when he told them..."I'm going to lift more weight when I'm 40 than any other time in my life. Also the kind of weight I'm talking about is lifting 800 + pounds". We all know what his peers would have said...oh Brad..You might not even be training by the time you're 40. You're crazy man...don't you know Brad you get weaker as you get older! (Sound familiar John?)
John, I don't mean to pick on you...actually thanks for posting!
If you hadn't posted, I might not have taken the time to respond.
My Vision is to help both youth and adults alike, win the greatest race of all The RACE of LIFE!
iXL So Can YOU @ TEAMiXL.com
- Greg Stott
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Post by chancey on Jun 13, 2008 10:05:10 GMT -5
Thanks Greg for posting you lend credibility to the topic. Your post do motivate & inspire me. I like the way you and your team goes about business.
I am glad for Fred Peterson because I saw him pull 640 in VT last year and no one had video and I'm like hey this guy 69 pulled 640 and I don't think anyone believed me. If I remember right he didn't use a belt either. I feel very privledged to have seen that firsthand.
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jp
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Post by jp on Jun 13, 2008 14:28:31 GMT -5
Big difference between 40 and 60 as far as losing strength. The one thing about powerlifting is that endurance is not as much of a factor as in other sports. I have improved my bench by about 45 lbs in my 60's. Two reasons - technique and smart training. I bench heavy once per week and that is it. I do singles with 70-80 percent of my present pr. These singles are done at both normal and close grip. Then very heavy rows - and front and rear delt work also heavy. Finish with Pull Ups and Dips I cannot comment on the other lifts as I have a bad knee - but from what I have heard the last lift to decrease is the Dead Lift - someone said it is because us Old Guys are used to getting on and off the Pot - oh well LOL!! I agree about the deadlift.... John
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jp
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Post by jp on Jun 13, 2008 14:33:58 GMT -5
I feel sorry for you because I lift more weight today than I have ever. I have increased strength over the years and I have logs to prove it. And I certainly lift a helluva lot more than when I was 16. Look to the best powerlifters and strongman of the world - there not all younguns! But who knows maybe now that I've hit 40 everything will start falling apart. I doubt it though. Hey Chancey, Don't feel sorry for me....it is what it is. Yeah, lift more now than when I was 16, but not as much as when I was 36.....I guess it depends when a person peaks out. I had a very good powerlifting career, but was never really an "outstanding" lifter. It remains to be seen how well we'll all do in later years. I wish everyone a long and healthy career. Cheers, John
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jp
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Post by jp on Jun 13, 2008 14:45:28 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]"Gentlemen....this is all BS.....as you age, you do lose a certain amount of strength and size. I cannot do today at 46, what I did at 36, 26 or even 16. To say you're as good today as you were twenty years ago, or ten or whatever, is not reality." [/glow] John, Reality my friend is what you perceive. You are only limited by your own imagination. We are living in a time of pioneers...regarding the level of strength and muscle that a human can attain & maintain as we age. Never before in the history of the World has man been strength training and developing the way we have over the last 40 -50 years. Again...please note the word NEVER. When people are dealing with something that has never been done or is only now showing the possibility of being done there have always been and always will be skeptics. (John) However...thank God for today’s technology...and the means of mass communication. I am referring to the Internet and specifically YouTube. Now even the most skeptical, (John) can watch history unfold in front of them from home. John...did you even watch the video; I posted entitled 40+ Deadlift Motivational Video. If you haven't I would encourage you or anyone else to take just a minute and have a look. The back story is this. I've been lifting now for over 32 years. I've been told since the beginning by individuals like John, that my strength is limited. That if I want to be strong...I'll need to take drugs, use gear, or work out 5-7 days a week forever. If I don't...they say what's the point...you will just lose what muscle you've developed. You'll just have fat cover your muscle and you'll have to stop training...because...well you know we all do! The nay Sayers...have said, well lifting is fine...but once you're out of High School you'll stop...or...Once you join the service you'll stop...or...Once you get married, you'll stop...or...Once you have kids you'll stop...or Once you get in your 30's you'll stop...or...Once you get in your 40's you'll stop...etc. etc...etc. Here is my reality, (John) I'm 45 years old. I'm stronger now than any time in my whole life. Meaning (John) I haven't peaked. I'm still setting PR'S. This is reality...and not because I haven't lifted huge weight before over my 32 years...my records and lifting accomplishments can speak for themselves. Years ago...when I started my physical fitness journey...I weighed in at 110 lbs. I now weigh a sleek 260 lbs. No Drugs, No Gear. I'm a combat veteran, Married for over 25 years. I have two great kids that are 24 & 20. I've had many injuries, but I've trained through them. I had many trials & tribulations...but I've survived them. My life has balance and I've kept logs for over 20 years. My oldest log book in my possession is from 1986. So when I tell you I'm stronger now...then ever before, it isn't an accident or I just lucked out. I've been developing a plan, testing my theories on myself. A pioneer that believes as we age...we can through proper diet, exercise and core strength training...maintain a high degree of muscle mass and do what others would think of as unthinkable! This will be my course until the Lord calls me Home! I am not the only pioneer...Fred Peterson at the young age of 70 on May 17th in a WABDL Meet deadlifted 650 lbs. RAW. In 2000 Fred had done at the age of 62 a 650 lb. deadlift RAW with the AAU. He did not set a new PR...But he is still setting World Records as he advances through the Masters Ranks. Who would have thought or even supported Fred back in the 50's when he was a young adult, if he had told them, "hey I'm going to keep with this lifting thing...and when all of you are sipping your food through a straw...or are complaining of back pain...I'm going to deadlift off the ground...650 lbs. They would have (JOHN) said Fred you're nuts. You'd have a better chance at going to the moon! Brad Gillingham at age 40 set a new PR and Masters World Record in the deadlift of 856 lbs. Key word here is PR or Personal Record. He got stronger friends. He did not settle. He devised training that worked and he listened to his body. What do you think his friends in the 80's would have said to Brad, when he told them..."I'm going to lift more weight when I'm 40 than any other time in my life. Also the kind of weight I'm talking about is lifting 800 + pounds". We all know what his peers would have said...oh Brad..You might not even be training by the time you're 40. You're crazy man...don't you know Brad you get weaker as you get older! (Sound familiar John?) John, I don't mean to pick on you...actually thanks for posting! If you hadn't posted, I might not have taken the time to respond. My Vision is to help both youth and adults alike, win the greatest race of all The RACE of LIFE! iXL So Can YOU @ TEAMiXL.com - Greg Stott Hi Greg, Lol!! I don't feel picked on....it just always baffles me when I read posts from younger lifters who have no idea what older lifters go through. I sort of follow what Ricky Dale Crain does in training. He told me once that as we age we need to shorten our cycles down and not do long drawn out cycles for training. He maintains that older lifters - 40 and older - need to keep there percentages up around the 80% level to maintain their strength. I believe there's truth to this. Like you I've train since the early 70's and have powerlifted since the early 80's. Certain things did indeed interrupt training, such as miltary service, family, work and what not. For the most part, I've pretty much maintained strength....however, I did note that no matter how I trained as I got older, there was a point where I peaked and wasn't gettin' any more out of it. To me, that was hint that I peaked on my strength level, and no amount of wanting or telling myself I could deadlift 500 pounds for instance, was going to make me deadlift 500 pounds. If that were the case, then there would be a lot more world champions as a whole pushing, pressing, pulling and squatting weights that were very, very heavy. The reality is we don't have a lot of phenomenal lifters, we have a handful as a whole, with a lot of mediocre lifters who, are no doubt stronger than the rest of the general population. That all said, I still maintain that strength levels drop off as we age..... LOL!! - hey, at least my ego is in check.... John
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Post by uncleal on Jun 13, 2008 19:01:40 GMT -5
Brian - Just logged on for the first time since I called. Sorry I missed you, big guy.
Joe - I didn't stop weight training for all those years years (quite the contrary), but I did stop squatting below parallel and chose rack pulls over deadlifts until I started competing again last year. I was always much more into looking powerful (big guns, wide back, etc.) than being powerful. Fortunately, I woke up.
jp - Well, I wouldn't call it b.s., especially since there are so many who didn't reach their powerlifting potential until they were in the master's category. However, I will give you that from what I've seen in both lifting and bodybuilding, most cannot maintain their strength and mass much past their mid fifties. I'm hoping to be one of those who defies those odds. That's why I'm so frustrated at losing ground on the bench.
chancey - At forty, you're still a pup.
70plus - Inspiring. I'd like to learn more about your routine, if you don't mind sharing.
ironwarrior - Whatever drove you, thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed response. What did Fred weigh when he set those PRs? Maybe there's hope for a raw triple bodyweight deadlift for me yet!
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Post by ironwarrior275 on Jun 14, 2008 0:46:24 GMT -5
Al,
Fred Peterson competes in the 259 lb. Class in the WABDL. So his weight was over 242 lbs. and under 259 lbs.
What's allowed me to excel and still not peak is just the opposite of what you said you stopped doing. Meaning you went the way of the look...while I've always trained the core. You stopped full squatting and stopped pulling from the floor. For me a major goal was to be able to do 405 X 20 in the squat RAW.
I didn't accomplish this goal until I was 37 years old.
Cross training is big...and I learned at an early age from a Powerlifting Great named Walter Thomas how to...
1. REST 2. Cross Train 3. Stay in Shape year round.
Walter used to take 30 days off after a meet and not even touch a weight. He would swim and play basketball. Then he would get back into the gym...train...find a contest and ramp up. Compete and do it all over again. He did great numbers and was way ahead of his time.
Some of my Key Principals to growing stronger as you get older are:
Less is More
RAW means Power
Rest & Diet are what grow the body
50% of what you do today, won't be 50% of what you do tomorrow.
I will elaborate on the last key, regarding the 50% Rule as I like to call it. Too many lifters don't understand that it's not muscle that allows one man or woman to lift more than another. If this were the case then there would be no weight classes...all lifters would be in a state of growing their bodies to become heavy weights. Why can an Olympic Lifter weighing 165 lbs. perform a 400 lb. C&J?
The answer is, he's simply trained his body's CNS or Central Nervous System to react/fire better than the athlete that has not trained their CNS to respond when the brain signals it's time to lift.
Nerve endings surround our muscles. I like to use the car analogy to help lifters understand. Two mustangs are parked out front of a gym. They look the same but if the two mustangs were to race one would win and the other would certainly loose. Why?
One mustang has a 4 cyl. under the hood while the other has a modified 8 cyl. From the outside they look exactly the same... but when the driver of each car pushes that gas pedal...Well the 8 Cyl. will go much faster than the 4 cyl. that's for sure!
You see we must all train...our CNS to react/fire on command like that 8 cyl.
This is done by doing speed work and working with weights in the 50 - 70% range of a one rep max. Now if done over time... you should be able to see what I mean, when I say... what's 50% today won't be what's 50% tomorrow.
Benefits of speed work are only for those that can check their ego and when their max is 250 or 300...and they need to be training with 125 or 150 lbs...that's when they not only need to get it...they need to do it. The ego is a powerful thing. And when a lifter is in a gym with his friends and they are all doing a pyramid style routine...or seeing how close they can come to their 1 rep max each week...Well it's hard to say, Guys I'm going to take off the 45's and put on some 25's and some change on each end of the bar, so I can do my speed work. Again for those that are bold and can stay the course...after years of doing this...they will be telling their friends to add a couple of 45's to each side because they are going to do some speed work.
You don't get hurt from the deadlift or the full RAW Squat... Just the opposite...when you're not training your core... when you're not squatting, you're setting yourself up for failure and injury.
The other key benefit to doing heavy core development... is that it will keep your body producing more Testosterone and HGH. These two hormones live and die by a very simple credo: If you don't use it...you will lose it.
Note of Interest: My Testosterone Level is 19 points higher at age 45 than it was at age 40. I don't use any Testosterone boosters...I have increased my core lifts... And have been doing Strongman Training Heavy since 2002.
What drives me...I can put it to you this way:
I compete to train...I don't train to compete.
When my web site is finished...should of already been done... but when it's done soon, we'll have all this kind of information available for our TEAM iXL Members and much, much more.
iXL So Can YOU @ TEAMiXL.com
- Greg Stott
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jp
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Post by jp on Jun 14, 2008 1:04:30 GMT -5
"However, I will give you that from what I've seen in both lifting and bodybuilding, most cannot maintain their strength and mass much past their mid fifties."
--That's all I was saying....didn't mean to start a firestorm...its only my opinion.
Anyway....I done with this thread....=)
JP
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Post by 70plus on Jun 14, 2008 9:32:12 GMT -5
Lots of good information - I agree with getting the body to fire on all cylinders - I also think that singles are the way to go and really believe in speed work - That first 6 inches of any lift is key - off the floor - out of the hole or off the chest. For the person who Said they compete to train rather than train to compete - I respectfully disagree with the outlook - but to each his own. I will be glad to share some of the things that have worked for me with you - Just shoot me a e mail phh64@comcast.net - better than taking up the space here. A very wise lifter who totals over 2700 (granted with gear be it single ply only) told me the best way to improve on any lift is to practice that lift as may ways as possible - -Why do ball players spend hours in the cage and taking grounders or fly balls?? Last if someone thinks that you can train the same way at 60 that you can at 30 THINK AGAIN!!!
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Post by chancey on Jun 14, 2008 10:44:39 GMT -5
Good discussion. No hard feeling to anyone. It feels good to be a Pup! I just hope the Fred Petersons of the world continue to set the bar for me. And Greg keep changing the rules brother!
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Post by uncleal on Jun 14, 2008 12:24:25 GMT -5
Greg - Thanks again. I've been doing speed bench's in the 50% to 60% 1RM range with and without minibands. The typical drill has been nine sets (3 wide; 3 medium; 3 narrow) of three reps. One of my biggest problems has been lowering the weight too slowly when I get near max, and unfortunately, the speed work hasn't helped correct it. I lower fast until about 75% 1RM, then I get tentative. Must be because I'm a whoose.
Although I have major problems following the whole adequate rest and "less is better" philosophy, my old body is in violent agreement though. I had set a new PR for months without an overuse injury, then hurt myself when I insisted on working out three days after my last meet.
I'm a big fan of cross training. I compete in lifting, running, and swimming. I also snorkel/SCUBA dive, hike, mountain/rock climb. So, I'm always preparing for something. Unfortunately, I've learned the hard way there is an "interference effect" that results from training concurrently for dissimilar events. Last December, I tried training for a 5K run that was scheduled for the week after the 100% RAW Worlds and saw my strength levels plunge before I realized I had to pick one. (Of course, I dropped the run.)
70plus - Yea, getting my body to fire on all cylinders has been, by far, my most valuable learning experience this decade. My squat and deadlift have both gone up over 75 lbs since December solely because I've activated my sleeping glutes with hip mobility work with leg bands coupled with pull throughs, reverse hypers, and sumo DLs.
Sure, I'll email you, but you might consider starting a thread in this section with your workouts and theories. I, for one, don't see how doing singles with 70% to 80% of 1RM could improve your PR. I understand speed work, of course, but I don't get how you can recruit enough fibers to improve upon your PR, unless you also work in the 90% and above ranges. If you could explain how to make that work, I think it would help a lot of folks progress without putting their shoulders at risk.
chancey - Amen to that, brother.
jp - In the unlikely event you wander back here, I hope you're not offended. No one was malicious. You stated your opinion, and we simply responded with ours. Glad you qualified your initial remarks.
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Post by 3speed on Jun 14, 2008 13:44:58 GMT -5
I, for one, don't see how doing singles with 70% to 80% of 1RM could improve your PR. I understand speed work, of course, but I don't get how you can recruit enough fibers to improve upon your PR, unless you also work in the 90% and above ranges. If you could explain how to make that work, I think it would help a lot of folks progress without putting their shoulders at risk. I recently read a report - I will try to find it again and reference it - concerning the kinesiology of ballistic bench work. The study contrasted tricep response to ballistic benching - actually launching the bar out of your hands at the to of the lift - to max single rep lifts. The study found - I don't remember the exact numbers - that more tricep muscle fibers were activated when the bar left the benchers hand at the top of the lift than during the lockout of a max bench.
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jp
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Post by jp on Jun 14, 2008 14:11:19 GMT -5
jp - In the unlikely event you wander back here, I hope you're not offended. No one was malicious. You stated your opinion, and we simply responded with ours. Glad you qualified your initial remarks. [/quote]
Hi there,
I'm here...not going anywhere. Not offended either. I know no one was malicious. I didn't think anyone was being malicious. No biggie really. You're right...its just an opinion.
I knew when I hit the send button that my comments would probably flare some people up....my whole point to what I was saying was that for instance, at many of the meets I competed in not only did I witness lifters I had known for years NOT lifting as much as they had when they were younger, but I experienced it myself. I just couldn't squat, bench or deadlift the same amount of weight. Some might cry training & diet issues.....but the reality of it was that it didn't matter how I trained or ate. It is what it is.
There's no doubt that there's some ego-eccentric folks on this and many other boards like this one. Guys who just cannot admit that maybe their best days are behind them. That's not to imply that one should give up, because I certainly don't think that. In fact I applaud anyone who's in the gym and training at all, at any age. I think we've all seen some very impressive lifting by lifters of all ages. I know we're all stronger than the average couch potato over 40....that goes without saying =). I just think that at some point in your life, you're going to hit a brick wall where you simply cannot move more weight. At that point do you say I've reached my peak? Is it possible, just possible to have reached a "peak" at a certain age, whatever that age is? I think it is.
At that point, if you're trying to push past that peak, to me, its just inviting injury and not "smart training".....the kind of training we say as Master's lifters that we know how to do because we're Master's and have experience. That's where the ego thing comes in. Refusing to admit you're simply not as strong as you once were....not that you're not strong at all, just that when you were younger (whatever age you want to insert here) you were a little or a lot stronger.
I apologize if I offended anyone.
John =)
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Post by uncleal on Jun 15, 2008 19:32:21 GMT -5
Good post, John. Don't be too hard on the egocentric guys though. They put a lot of heart in the sport. I, for one, would rather leave this world having a heart attack attempting a deadlift PR than face down in my soup.
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jp
Full Member
Posts: 183
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Post by jp on Jun 15, 2008 19:43:20 GMT -5
I'm a Coroner's Investigator for a living.....not sure I'd want to do either of those.....LOL!! Its those egocentric guys who keep me in business....=)....sorry....coroner humor.
JP
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