Supplements and competing?

[rtb]

I am a little confused about the supplements and the drug test.

I looked through it and unfortunately my background isn't chemistry.  I see many talk against supps because some can cause a positive test.  Obviously I would like to pass the drug test and adhere to the rules. 

I do like to take pre-workouts; mainly for caffeine, L-arginine, and beta alanine.  Are there specific pre-workouts to avoid? Or specifics that are ok?

Is there a tribulus supplement that is promoted by 100% raw? - Does that mean Macca and Tribulus are fine?

Thanks for feedback.

[bulldawg56]

I agree with you that it is confusing. On top of everything else, they say some things are okay unless they exceed certain quantities, like caffeine. Things are so complicated now, that it's a crap shoot these days as to whether you will pass a drug test or not if you take any supplements. Having said that, strength sports are extreme sports, and your body needs supplements just to stay healthy and competitive. Then if you do test positive for something, you are the bad guy, whether you realize or or not. I think they need to go back to simple testing for steroids, blood doping, and illegal drugs. This would save us from trying to figure out how much coffee we can drink at a long meet.

[osu122975]

IMO - you should be ok w/ anything sold over the counter. That stuff doesn't really do much in giving you an edge anyway and unless you're breaking national or world records, there isn't much of a reason to waste a test on you.

[bulldawg56]

Nov 21, 2013 13:17:42 GMT -5 osu122975 said:

IMO - you should be ok w/ anything sold over the counter. That stuff doesn't really do much in giving you an edge anyway and unless you're breaking national or world records, there isn't much of a reason to waste a test on you.

...and yet WADA and several other organizations are trying to figure out a way to DQ people for creatine, and they have been DQ'ing people for too much caffeine as far back as the early 80's.

[3speed]

Full disclosure up front: I set up and administered the drug testing program for 100% RAW for several years. However, I am no longer affiliated with 100% RAW in any way.  I do not represent them in any way and nothing I say should be taken as advice concerning the federation.

Nov 21, 2013 13:17:42 GMT -5 osu122975 said:

IMO - you should be ok w/ anything sold over the counter. That stuff doesn't really do much in giving you an edge anyway and unless you're breaking national or world records, there isn't much of a reason to waste a test on you.


Nothing could be farther from the truth concerning supplements.  Supplements are a $30 Billion a year, largely unregulated, industry.  Companies can put anything out there and, as long as nobody complains and a few key statements concerning the supplement aren't made, no action will be taken. 

Here's what usually happens.....  A company boosts the effectiveness of its product by adding "ingredient/s" not listed on the label - usually a prohormone, a steroid or a stimulant.  Word gets out that people are making great gains with the product and sales skyrocket.  Somebody abuses the product, gets sick or worse and the FDA gets involved.  Tests are run, the product is found to be tainted and the FDA issues a letter to the company to immediately cease distribution.  No further action is taken if the company complies. The company complies because they have already made their millions.  They also destroy their remaining stock and take a tax write off on the loss. 

The following qoute is at the top of the FDA page on Medication Health Fraud.
    FDA has identified an emerging trend where over-the-counter products, frequently represented as dietary     supplements, contain hidden active ingredients that could be harmful. Consumers may unknowingly take     products laced with varying quantities of approved prescription drug ingredients, controlled substances, and     untested and unstudied pharmaceutically active ingredients. These deceptive products can harm you! Hidden     ingredients are increasingly becoming a problem in products promoted for bodybuilding.
The full page - if you want to do further reading/research is: www.fda.gov/Drugs/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/BuyingUsingMedicineSafely/MedicationHealthFraud/ucm234523.htm

As far as the testing goes, 100% RAW tests all lifters who set World Records and enough of the other lifters are tested at random to ensure 10% of all lifters are tested.  In certain other "drug tested" feds, you would actually stand a better chance of being tested as a 64yo, 132lb police/fire lifter so they can claim to perform drug testing while still claiming inflated numbers for their records.

[osu122975]

If all this is true - then why doesn't the government get involved and start regulating this market? They willingly monitor "horrific" anabolic steriods which actually work and yet look the other way when it comes to a 30 billion dollar a year industry? Hmm....somebody's getting a cut of the pie. But then again, if people are ignorant enough to spend 10x the amount of money on something that works 10x less than the actual drugs that work......there's a fool around every corner.

I've learned one important thing in this country - if something is happening and it doesn't make sense, you can bey a large sum of money is involved going into someone's pocket behind closed doors.

[bulldawg56]

The info provided by 3speed is accurate, but I don't think that more government involvement in our lives is the answer. I would say that the testing methods need to be simplified so that a lifter knows what he/she can and can not use.

[rtb]

Too much caffeine!? Is this real?

[3speed]

Nov 29, 2013 19:05:30 GMT -5 rtb said:

Too much caffeine!? Is this real?

No.  Caffeine is not on the WADA Prohibited list.  It is on the monitoring list. The following qoute is directly from the WADA website:


    THE 2014 MONITORING PROGRAM
* The following substances are placed on the 2014 Monitoring Program:
1. Stimulants: In - Competition only: Bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenyl propanolamine, pipradrol,
    pseudoephedrine (< 150 micrograms per milliliter), synephrine.
2. Narcotics: In - Competition only: Hydrocodone, mitragynine, morphine/codeine ratio; tapentadol; tramadol.
3. Glucocorticosteroids:     Out - of Competition only*

TheWorld Anti-Doping Code (Article4.5) states:
“WADA, in consultation with Signatories and governments, shall establish a monitoring program regarding substances which are not on the Prohibited List, but which WADA wishes to monitor in order to detect patterns of misuse in sport.”

[3speed]

Nov 27, 2013 5:34:33 GMT -5 bulldawg56 said:

The info provided by 3speed is accurate, but I don't think that more government involvement in our lives is the answer. I would say that the testing methods need to be simplified so that a lifter knows what he/she can and can not use.

I would love to see things simplified, but it simply can't be done while the supplement makers continue to spike their products with substances that are on the banned list and not listing them among the ingredients.  It is impossible to separate those who intentionally use steroids and those who unknowingly use them.  Almost everyone who tests positive proclaims their innocence - even the ones who are 5'10" tall and weigh 250lbs at 6% bodyfat.  It is impossible to tell the difference.  Unfortunately, that is why if you test positive, you are positive regardless of your intentions.

This is just my opinion, but I see it this way.  The problem lies not with the FDA or the tests.  The problem lies with the greedy supplement makers who will try any angle - even endangering people's lives - to make a few extra dollars and with the low life scumbags who intentionally use PEDs and then compete in tested feds in an attempt to lie, cheat, defraud and steal their way to a plastic trophy worth just a few dollars.  I know this next statement crosses into a whole other argument, but I'm gonna make it anyway. This isn't professional sports we are talking about here.  The people who use and then lift in a tested fed are trading what little personal integrity they might have started with for a cheap trophy and bragging rights that, quite honestly, no one outside of a very small group care about.

[bulldawg56]

There have been repeated efforts over the years to get powerlifting in the olympics. The only way for that to ever be possible is to protect the integrity of our sport. Nearly all the athletes in the olympics are amature athletes. I think that keeping testing methods simple will weed out the abusers, while protecting those who inadvertently take a barred substance from OTC supplements. Of course, I will always recommend that if powerlifting ever gets into the olympics, that it be raw lifting only.

[bighawgfsu]

So who in the heck do you check with to see if something is banned? Is jack3d banned? who do you contact to ask?

[osu122975]

There's an easy fix to all of this but the government had to stick their nose in....again.

The field is much more level in the non-testing feds than those who test.

[bighawgfsu]

Can anyone tell me the preworkouts they have used and are legal for our raw federations....thanks

[3speed]

The only PWO I have ever used is a peanut butter and honey sandwich about an hr before I hit the gym and a cup of coffee on the way.

Dennis Cieri has a line of supplements that are endorsed by the 100% RAW Federation. They are not cheap. You can find them here if you are interested: www.sspnutrition.com/about-ssp-nutrition/

[bighawgfsu]

Jan 30, 2014 10:40:26 GMT -5 3speed said:

The only PWO I have ever used is a peanut butter and honey sandwich about an hr before I hit the gym and a cup of coffee on the way.

Dennis Cieri has a line of supplements that are endorsed by the 100% RAW Federation. They are not cheap. You can find them here if you are interested: www.sspnutrition.com/about-ssp-nutrition/

thank you 3 speed ...ill check it out