New Lifter-Help with Deadlift

[Deleted]

Hello All,

I just joined the forum. I'm 43 (will be 44 in 3 weeks) and looking for help on deadlift.

I lift raw, no belt or suit and would like to get 405 by the end of the year. I tried 375 tonight but stalled at the knees. I DL once per week and do SLDL on another day. I didn't have any problem getting the weight going. I'm thinking of adding rack pulls. Would welcome feedback. Been lifting for 5 months after a long long long layoff.

Thanks,
Steve

[3speed]

Deadlift can be very difficult to get right and very difficult to troubleshoot. Do you lift conventional or sumo? Stopping around your knees can be sign of a weak back, weak hips, incorrect/nonexistent use of your hips, too much weight or just a weak will. Is the weight stopping just below, just above or at your knees? Determining exactly what is happening will help to best decide how to fix the problem.

[Deleted]

3speed,

Thank you for the reply. I deadlift conventional. My lift stalled as my hands passed my knees. I was reviewing my form today and I think I may have let my legs extend too quickly because I felt a strong tug in my hamstrings, similar to what I feel when I SLDL.

I have successfully lifted 365 (4 weeks ago) and last week did 350 for 2 sets of 1. Could it be sloppy form?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Steve

[chancey]

Hi Steve,

I’m the “kid” around this forum coming in at 40. Welcome aboard.

Let me just throw out some basic form stuff when pulling conventional. With your feet shoulder width apart you should make sure your toes point out a little versus pointing straight ahead. This will help with hip activation. Your arms should be shoulder width apart, almost perpendicular to the floor. I’ve seen quite a few people DL with a wide grip angling their arms out from the body and all this does is put extra stress on your grip and is a recipe for grip failure. Keep the bar in close to the shins almost dragging up them. This is huge because once the bar gets out in front of you you’re all done. A few inches here make a HUGE difference and would probably make you stall at the knees and would definitely start to pull on the hamstrings. Also, Keep your head up and try to lean back when pulling.

If your sticking at the knees you could incorporate pulling with bands or chains, rack pulls, and speed DLs.

Cubs are looking real strong this year!

[uncleal]

Steve,

I'm almost 20 years older than you and went from a 365 max last December to 425 in June. I also lift conventional. Some of the things that helped me:

1. Only pulling pulling off the floor every other week.
2. Using good mornings, low box squats, reverse hyperextensions, glute ham raises, and occasionally speed work as assistance exercises. (Include one or two each DL workout and on your dynamic effort day.)
3. Working my way down on a rack. That is, doing rack pulls from above the knee, at the knee, and below the knee. I believe these helped me more than anything else.
4. Alternating with sumos (to build hip strength).

I just started using bands, too, but won't know if they help until I try for my next PR.

Some of the guys swear by deficit deadlifts, but they hurt my back. However since you can handle SLDLs, perhaps these will help you, too.

In case you're interested, here's how I break it up:

Week 1: Rack pull (above the knee; at the knee on week 5; below the knee on week 9)
Week 2: Sumo (five reps or triples)
Week 3: Bands (50%; 55% week 7; 60% week 11)
Week 4: Conventional (triple with 85%; double with 95 or previous PR week 8; week 12 attempt new PR)

Hope this gives you some ideas. Best of luck.

[3speed]

chicagolifter, it appears you are in good hands here. All excellent advice above.

First, deadlifting every week and adding extra work is serious overkill with the deadlift. You might want to try switching to doing deads every 2nd or 3rd week and put your assistance work on the inbetween weeks.

Second, make sure you are setting up properly. Most importantly, make sure your shoulders are behind the bar and your hands are straight down when you start your drive. Don't pull to start your lift. Start the lift by driving your heels thru the floor. To help prevent your legs locking out early, start driving your hips forward about halfway thru the lift

Romanian deadlifts will help considerably with your hip drive and that, in turn, will help with your sticking point.

Third, work on your speed. Speed off of the floor will help you to blast thru sticking points. Doing deficit deads - preferably by loading the bar with 35lb plates - will help you generate speed off the floor. Deficit deads are not a maximal effort exercise. Do them with no more than 70% - they are for speed. Some people swear by rack pulls. Some see no benefit from them. Experiment.

You might try something like this:
Week 1: Deadlift from floor.
Week 2: Alternate SLDL and Romanians
Week 3: Alternate deficit deads and power cleans.

Repeat as necessary.

I hope this helps. Keep us updated.

[uncleal]

3speed - When doing speed work with the deficit DLs what rep range should you use?

Never thought of using Romanian DLs for breaking sticking points. Great idea. As a rule, would you also do speed work here or go heavier?

Some good ideas. Thanks.

[chancey]

I love RDLs for the great hamstring work but also because it allows me to concentrate on hip movement.

[Deleted]

Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply yesterday.

Chancey, thanks for the form breakdown, I'll be sure to review and put it into practice.

Uncleal, I'm very impressed with your gains at your sprite age. I have never heard of deficit deadlifts, can you explain what they are?

3speed, excellent advice on driving the heels through the floor. Is speed work simply pulling as quickly as you can, similar to the beginning movement of a power clean?

What is the difference between SLDL and Romanian DLs?

Thank you all for the advice. I will put it into practice and let you know the outcome.

Steve

[chancey]

The major difference between RDLs & SLDLS is that on RDLs you keep the bar as close to your body as possible, much like a regular DL, pretty much dragging the bar up and down your thighs. On SLDLs, on the downward movement, the weight is allowed to move out in front of you, almost as if your arms are hinged (at the bottom you will almost be in a bent over row setup). Also, on RDLs some people will stop short around knee level while the SLDL goes down to the floor. You can go a lot heavier with RDLs. My personal reason for preferring the RDL is because of how closely it mimics the conventional DL.

Not wanting to be a thread hog I will defer to 3speed on the deficit DLs and fill in anything I may have left out as he is much more experienced than me.

[3speed]

chicagolifter: A SLDL is done by bending at the waist while keeping the knees straight. A RDL is done with your knees slightly bent. You begin by moving your hips (butt) backwards to lower the weight. The weight should be lowered to just above the floor. The weight should then be raised by driving the hips forward.

Deficit deads are done by standing on 45lb plates or by loading the bar with 35lb plates. Any more of a deficit will mess with your form.

Speed deads are done with 50-70% of your max. They are generally done for 5-6 sets of 3. The idea is to generate as much speed as possible. DO NOT JERK THE WEIGHT!!!



uncleal: RDL's are done to help the lockout power of your hips. As such, they should be done with heavier weight. I generally stick with 4-6 sets of 3-5 reps.



Hope this helps. Feel free to ask further.

[uncleal]

Thanks for all the good info, guys. I have very short legs and longish arms, and have been told by several experienced coaches I'm built for sumos. Unfortunately, I also have very small hips that are nowhere near as strong as my back...which has kept me with the conventional, which I can horse up, rather than rely on technique. So, maybe doing RDLs will help me develop better hip thrust/strength.

Right now, my sumo PR is 60 lbs below my conventional. So, I'd really need to do a lot of work to bring them up to the same level. At my age, I don't know if it's worth taking what precious time I have left to develop it.

Chicagolifter - Don't mean to steal your thread and make it all about me, but maybe if we broaden the discussion, we can get input that would be of value to you, me, and all the other rookies. Appeciate your patience.

[3speed]

uncleal: The RDLs will help you regardless of whether you go sumo or coventional. Only you can decide if it's worth the effort, but correct form and technique will make a cosiderable difference.

I have always told my trainees that you get stronger by identifying your weak link in the lift and hammer that weakness until it is no longer a weakness. You are halfway there.