Wrist Wraps and Knee Sleeves

[bossman]

Dear Lifters,
The board has revisited the request of many lifters from the past. The lifters have asked us are these items available or when will they be. We had a vote a few years ago and it was a strong no. Now with the resurgence of RAW Powerlifting across the country we are revisiting these topics to see how our lifters respond and see if this is something they might want to see added. This is a very important topic right now so please take a moment and place your vote. If you have any questions or concerns please e-mail me directly as I am not looking to start an Internet bask party. [e-mail]

Paul Bossi
100% Powerlifting Federation, Inc.
President

[prhunter]

I humbly submit that it depends on the federation's goals. If the fed wants to be an WDFPF affiliate, I suppose 100% RAW should adopt their rules. I believe wrist wraps are okay but knee wraps and knee sleaves are not legal in the unequipped division of the WDFPF. If 100% RAW is going to be a stand alone international federation, then I believe both knee sleaves and wrist wraps should be allowed to be consistent with most other raw meets in the US (such as in USA Powerlifting, the APA, "RAW United," etc.).

[lapadat]

I put no for both, but if the long term goal is to get in with the WDFPF than we might have to adopt their rules (as prhunter suggested).

That being said, there is voting done within that organization, and once we are members there (and there is plenty of us) we can take it to a vote on the issue again.

I read an interview with you once and you talked about how the biggest problem with powerlifting is how many federations there was. And how if there was a chance to work together that you would not be the broken spoke on the wheel when it came to adapting rules. It was well put, and I agree.

While I perfer lifting to be done with out knee sleeves or wrist wraps, if it unites two big organizations and brings RAW powerlifting in general further together and stronger I am for it. 100% RAW and WDFPF together would be a huge merger for the sport of powerlifting that would be felt around the World.

After we are all united we can work out the details on these things in votes at AGMs.

[chancey]

I don't care either way is my vote. Deep down inside I say no but if this can anyway help unify 100% RAW rules with other federations to create a standard for raw lifting than I am all for it.

[biglifter]

Big NO's across the board. And all the superdelegates agree.

[sasquatch]

At first I was for wraps than I started training with out them, and I got better with out them.
in the bench.

I say stay to your form and run it the way you have been.

lifters are talking about getting in the WDFPF, but they got a USA afiliate the ADFPF. It is not nearly as active as 100% RAW but it is still there afiliate.
not to mention the WDFPF HAS DIVISIONS for raw and equipped.

maybe build relationships with countries like you are doing, go from there, this is the only Raw federation, I say keep it that way and build it like you are currently doing.

[scottmitchell74]

"While I perfer lifting to be done with out knee sleeves or wrist wraps, if it unites two big organizations and brings RAW powerlifting in general further together and stronger I am for it. 100% RAW and WDFPF together would be a huge merger for the sport of powerlifting that would be felt around the World."



I voted "no" for both, but I agree with the above quote.

I've returned to PLing after a 6 year absence and part of what quashed my initial interest was all the equipment and feds. It was like Boxing has become....aimless. Who's the real champ?

I lift for my PRs....I'm never realistically going to challenge my weight class(es) under any condition but it's fun to follow and compare. I'm a "stat" guy in all sports. But following PL and trying to figure out who's really the strongest is like some insane mathematical formula. It's confusing and not as fun. I'm drawn to and enjoying this site/Fed because I decided this time around "Raw! Nothing but a belt!" That's my preference and I want to meet my goals in a singlet and belt. After setting that goal I stumbled upon this site and I'm so glad I did.

BUT, like above posters, if tweaking the rules just a bit brings others together, I'm for that. Knee sleeves and wrist wraps aren't massive mechanical advantages. They are in every day use in many (most) sports, especially for those who are "creaky" for whatever reason.

Spirit of the law -vs- letter of the law.

[ryfralic]

May 8, 2008 10:26:17 GMT -5 lapadat said:

While I perfer lifting to be done with out knee sleeves or wrist wraps, if it unites two big organizations and brings RAW powerlifting in general further together and stronger I am for it. 100% RAW and WDFPF together would be a huge merger for the sport of powerlifting that would be felt around the World.

After we are all united we can work out the details on these things in votes at AGMs.

I agree with that statement. If it unites the two, I think it would be good for the industry.

[bilbo]

I have thrown away not to the benda of wrist, because alone I do bench press. but I believe that if is 100% raw tendria that to be pure and without nothing but that the normal clothes

[jimray]

I believe the primary goal should be to get lifters out of their bench shirts, squat suits, and knee wraps. Going to wrist wraps and knee sleeves could bring in many new lifters.

[dopar66]

I voted yes to wrist wraps, but I feel the urge to qualify that statement (go figure.....). :')

www.worlddrugfreepowerliftingfederation.org/documents/rulebook.doc

Copy/paste:
**UNEQUIPPED Division: supportive equipment limited to a powerlifting belt and wrist wraps, both of which must meet rulebook specifications. (See Costume and Personal Equipment for specification constraints.)

Here's my full take on it.
If we wish to become a WDFPF affiliate, which I am mostly in favor of, then those lifters wishing to qualify for WDFPF worlds, records, etc., should most certainly conform to the rules of the WDFPF.
However, I feel an option should remain in place for lifters who are out there just to compete, with no desire to set world records or go to WDFPF meets, to use a sleeve that meets set criteria. Here's a for instance: local or state meet directors have the option to allow sleeves, or meet directors that are holding a sanction meet lower than World level, have the same option.

The only feedback I've ever heard about wrist wraps is they stabilize the wrist, I've never heard anecdotal or empirical evidence of them increasing a bench press. The analogy I like is that they are miniature belts for the wrist. Wish I'd thought of that.....
Knee sleeves, well, I've heard tale of (thirdhand) guys who use as tight of a knee sleeve as possible to try and get rebound out of it. No different than using a singlet two sizes too small. It's pretty much a diminishing returns scenario. If a guy has such low confidence in his squat that he'll use constrictive sleeves to get 5 pounds, he's probably not going to the worlds anyway.... Insert great big smiley here.

Quietly steps off soapbox and exits, stage left of course....

God Bless.

[polakmade]

I generally in favor of knee sleeves and wrist wraps, they are safety items and allowable (and used) in most other strength sports and contact sports.

Problem is to keep them that way. In most other sports, use of overly constrictive equipment hurts performance. Not in powerlifting. I came up thru the 80's when ACE knee wraps became Marathon single gold lines, then double gold lines, etc. They got tighter and tighter, became lifting aids, much less safety devices, often the opposite. Same with the singlets and bench shirts. The original Marathon supersuit for safety became today's double demin. Titan even pushed the envelope with their original 'raw' singlet. I put one at the last worlds, had trouble getting 315 to parallel. Must have been a recycled Marathon supersuit. I switched to a standard wrestling singlet. I believe there is already a Velcro connect knee sleeve.

In conclusion, if sleeves and wraps are allowed, controls are needed (like what the IPF does to control single ply equipment) to keep 'evolution' from turning safety devices into lifting aids.

John Polak

[angrytomato]

I AGREE WITH DOPAR, DUDE YOU ARE A MESS!!!! I HOPE WE MEET ONE DAY - WE WILL HAVE A GREAT TIME!!!! LAUGHING TILL WE CRY!!! SLEEVE, KNEE WRAPS? WEAR WHAT YOU WANT I AM GOING TO BEAT YOU ANYWAY. THAT IS MY OUTLOOK AND MY STANCE AND LET'S JUST LIFT, OK?
LATER
LIFT HEAVY OR GO HOME
KISSEL

[seankatterle]

I think that your federation should offer two divisions.

Raw: No wraps or sleeves allowed

Classic or Traditional: Wrist wraps and knee wraps allowed (but still no bench shirts or powerlifting suits of any kind of course.)

[johnc]

I voted no to both. As a relatively new powerlifter and heading to my 1st 100% Raw meet later this month (3d meet overall), I have to say the thing attractive to me about 100% Raw is the no BS rule structure. "Do I have the right wraps, sleeves, whatever" Did you lift that weight equipped, raw and what version of raw"...

I am enjoying pursuit of this new sport precisly because it is me and the bar and that's it.

Besides, if you go and add those items, you'll have to change the slogan to, "Where lifter's compete, not technology.... well... sorta kinda..... ummmm... mostly" ;D

Although I will still compete in USAPL meets, where I started, I am going to stick to what I see as the real version of RAW, as you guys have taught it to me. Since making this decision and putting it into practice, I have lifted without wraps or sleeves and find that I did not really get any benefit, except perhaps psychological, from wearing the infernal devices anyway. So I vote no.

I am open to hearing points of view as to whether there are health reasons for wearing any of the gear mentioned. I have experience here on the knee side, with no medial miniscus and no ACL in my right knee. knee wraps surely helped in the beginning, getting accustomed to the weight, knee sleeves do not seem to help at all.

John

[johnc]

Let me add one more thing, especially being a newbie to all this. Regardless of my personal opinion, I support whatever the eventual decision will be because I am very impressed with the efforts of this organization and it's members. This forum has been invaluable in my development and those who participate have earned my heartfelt thanks and respect.

John

[thatnuckolskid]

with all due respect, maybe this is just easy to say since i'm young with young joints, but i don't think any equipment whatsoever should be allowed, including a belt or shoes. i used to have a really bad shoulder, a constantly strained back, weak wrists, a useless ankle, awful knees, and weak hips. so what did i do? i adressed the wrists and shoulder by doing a lot direct shoulder work and grip work, as well as stretching and active recovery after heavy workouts to stimulate bloodflow to help with recovery. for my back, ankles, and knees, however, i wore a belt to where i could hardly breathe, laced a pair of chucks up tight enough to cut blood flow off to my foot, and sat back so far on my squat i was in a good morning position at the bottom. eventually, i became so dependent on squatting this way i was getting 100 pounds on my squat out of just a BELT AND CHUCKS. after my last meet i realized how weak my core and ankles had gotten. i started basically from scratch again, squatting beltless and shoeless doing high volume stuff to strengthen my connective tissue, and train my weakened muscle groups. as first it was VERY painful, but now a strained glute and partially torn hamstring later i'm back to the same strength level i was at with a belt and chucks, only now with no belt and no shoes. at first i was a lot weaker and felt very ustable on my feet and supporting the weight with no belt, but my body got used to it. it just took a few months of swallowing my pride. with a few exceptions, most people can structure their training in a way to develop a strong enough core, wrists, and knees to need no supportive gear whatsoever. if your core and stabilizer muscles are strong enough, i believe you can lift totally without it. but there's that pride factor of building yourself back up to the point of not needing any support whatsoever, and as a male i sure know what pride is. but if olympic lifters' wrists dont fall off cleaning 400+ pounds and their knees don't collapse from front squatting ridiculous amounts of weight, i don't see why we should need anything.

i can see why a sumo deadlifter would want to wear shoes though, however.

[scottmitchell74]

Beyond the spectre of a crushed foot from a dropped weight, I'm all for just about everything you said!

I did my last DL session sans belt and finished with Power Cleans with no belt and no shoes and it felt great and was my best set ever. Go figure.....(and I'll be doing that more often, too)

[firefightertom]

yes to wrest wraps and knee sleeves.
I can lift with wrist wraps on or with knee sleeves on and cant tell any help or advantage that they offer except comfort and safety.

I get more out of a belt squatting than I do wrist wraps benching and I still think a belt is a good thing as well.

To me raw means without a bench shirt, squat suit or briefs and deadlift suit.

[James Gentry]

If it's working why change it?

[timhenriques]

I voted to yes to both but I am a little torn on knee sleeves. I wear them in training but I do have the fear that they could "evolve" into something more. I think wrist wraps are fine, in all honesty I like them more on the squat than on the bench press. Low bar squatting can put a lot of pressure on the wrist. I think that stabilizing a non moving joint (like the wrist or lower back overall is fine), wrapping a moving joint (shoulder, elbow, hip, knee) is not good at least with a substantial wrap. I agree that in general our goal should be to train our weak points, but sometimes permanent injuries prevent that. For example I have torn a ligament in my wrist from armwrestling and it is just gone, it will never get fixed. It doesn't bother me for PL but on something like lateral raises I have to wear a wrist wrap if I am going heavy. Other people might have a similar issue that is affected during PL.

My basic attitude is if someone on the street saw you do the lift, would they say, "Oh, he did that with wrist wraps so it doesn't count?" I don't think so. But with something like a bench shirt or knee wraps when you can't walk normal and people learn how much of a difference it makes then they do discredit the lift (whether they should or not).

I rambled, my preference is definitely wrist wraps, I am okay with knee sleeves but at the end of the day I will go with whatever the majority wants and whatever helps the fed out the most.

[matgic]

I must agree very strongly with Tim, here.

I believe that it is common logic that those joints which are being held stable in the lifts will not add much, if any benefit at all.

I voted yes to both. I recently started wearing knee sleeves and have found that it takes away much of the aching that I've experienced in my knees at times. I wouldn't die if they weren't included in meets, but I need them in training for sure.

Wrist wraps, however, are a necessity for me. I am 22 but have been diagnosed with arthritis in my left wrist, which up until recently made benching anything over 135 very painful to do. Any lifter with a smaller bone structure will be at more of a risk of issues with wrist problems. Unlike in the squat, where technique and footwear can be altered to shift load away from the knees, there is very little that can be done to save the wrists. Benching with the wrists straight forward rather than cocked back can help this some, but not nearly enough for some people. Those with low bar positions on the squat (like myself) will take an extra beating here as well.

I have never competed in 100% RAW, but I can say without a doubt, that I would if wrist wraps were allowed. Even if knee sleeves weren't. That's at least 1 new member for you guys.

That being said...in the end of the day, no current lifter 100% RAW will walk away with a significantly bigger total because of wrist wraps or knee sleeves. But by allowing them, you WILL get more members who will be able to compete and may not have been able to previously.

Adding the "Yes to Wrist Wraps" and "Yes to Both" comes out to 19 votes for wrist wraps. You could even consider adding the 5 "I don't cares" for 24 votes that would be fine with having wrist wraps put in. I truly hope that this change is considered as I would love to be a part of your federation.

-Matt