Simplifying my training

[jesseisrael]

After tryign the Rickey Crain 16 week program. I felt way too tired and way too overtrained. I have found that the getting older, will be 45 soon seems to require more recovery time. I have embarked on an old school Mike Mentzer 1 set to failure routine.
So, today, my first day I squatted 385 x 12 and deadlifted 385 x 11 @ 205 bwt.
This routine has me lifting each powerlift only once every 9 days.
Any thoughts?? I know that it sounds crazy but I can sure barely walk right now.

[jp]

jesseisrael said:

After tryign the Rickey Crain 16 week program. I felt way too tired and way too overtrained. I have found that the getting older, will be 45 soon seems to require more recovery time. I have embarked on an old school Mike Mentzer 1 set to failure routine.
So, today, my first day I squatted 385 x 12 and deadlifted 385 x 11 @ 205 bwt.
This routine has me lifting each powerlift only once every 9 days.
Any thoughts?? I know that it sounds crazy but I can sure barely walk right now.

I'm 46 and have had great luck with Crain's routines for all three lifts. We corresponded a while back and he told me he used the Gaugler routine (modified a bit) to train his lifts. He said to never drop below 80% on any lift....I agree...it works like a champ.

JP

[jp]

jesseisrael said:

After tryign the Rickey Crain 16 week program. I felt way too tired and way too overtrained. I have found that the getting older, will be 45 soon seems to require more recovery time. I have embarked on an old school Mike Mentzer 1 set to failure routine.
So, today, my first day I squatted 385 x 12 and deadlifted 385 x 11 @ 205 bwt.
This routine has me lifting each powerlift only once every 9 days.
Any thoughts?? I know that it sounds crazy but I can sure barely walk right now.

I've used his routines too. I'm 46 and have competed on and off for the last 20+ years.

16 weeks is a long time. I pretty much cut everything in half. I've corresponded with RDC about training loads and he was telling that as master's lifters we need to shorten our cycles back to as much as only 3 week intervals. If you look at some of the other routines he has, he has you start at or near the 80% level. He feels this is critical for older lifters to 1. maintain muscle mass which is or can be lost to age and 2. allows you an opportunity to not back cycle too far, so that you don't spend an inordinate amount of time playing "catch up".

In essence, when we were younger we could take 4 months to work up to a max effort. At our age, back cycling too far is counterproductive. Keep your weights up and take three week mini cycles was RDC's advice. I believe there's something to what he says.

You'll notice his routines for masters start with some fives and work down to triples and doubles only for a 3-4 weeks top!! Then he has you lower the weight 10-20 pounds (roughly) and start back up.

I've used this routine on the squat and dead lift with good results. On the bench press I've used his bench routine which is similar to the old Rick Gaugler routine. There's just not as many singles in it. The bench press has always been problematic for me. I'm now using the Buckeye routine which was posted on this site and it seems to be helping my bench. Time will tell.

Also, I wanted to mention that I too squat or deadlift once in 8-10 days or so. I have no specific days to train the lifts. I basically rotate an upper body (bench day) around the squat and dead lift like this;

day 1 - bp and upper body
day 2 - squat/leg work
day 3 - DBBP and upper body
day 4 - deadlift and leg work
day 5 -bp and upper body

There may be a day of rest in between the workouts or not. It depends on my work schedule. BUt suffice to say I never train more than two days in a row.

When a meet is coming up that I want to enter, I dead lift once in 10-14 days to allow for maximum recovery.

JP

[dopar66]

Jessie, I'm not a master yet but I'm entering my last year as a submaster, can I officially reply to your post? :')

There's been a lot of research, and I mean looking at muscle fibers under the microscope kind of research, about different set/rep combinations. Having sorted through and weeded out through scads of this stuff, the best overall conclusion I have been able to come up with is the HIT style training isn't best suited for the powerlifting types. I personally use a hodgepodge, a different approach to each comp. lift, and a different approach to the aux muscle groups. Part of it is the Gaugler/RDC combo, where I break a cycle into parts, and still use split training. Three heavy weeks and then a deload whether I need it or not. That goes for everything. On the bench I've switched to the Buckeye on Mondays, and on Thursdays do wide and close grip benching, and both days try to hammer the tri's with accessory work. Tuesday is squat day and I do a 3x5 for my working sets. I do two bookends with about 60% and three working sets with 90-95%, supersetting calf raises (because I have chicken legs). Wednesday is purely back/biceps, sets of 5-8 because that's what Hatfield's research said worked well for those particular types of muscles. Then comes Friday. Nasty friday is deadlifts, 5-7 singles with up to 90%. The alternating Friday is usually Romanian deads and straight legged deads.

I NEVER feel fresh during the week, but rarely feel overtrained.

By the way, my two cents is only worth two cents to me, you might find it's not worth a wooden nickel. Hopefully something will help.

God Bless.

[jp]

dopar66,
HI...how are you training that many days a week and still gaining....? I'd burn out quick....LOL!!

Kudos to you for being able to handle that kinda volume...

John

[dopar66]

John, don't forget I only get about 40 minutes a day. Just about the time I get good and warmed up.....

:')

God Bless.

[Williamson]

Jesse, I've recently embarked on a simple routine with high recovery time. Simple 3 x 3. 1st workout, do 1 set of three; second workout, do 2 sets of three; 3rd workout do 3 sets of three, then move up in weight.

Personally, I wouldn't consider anything that takes you to failure, or includes sets of more than 10 reps to be promoting recovery.

[Deleted]

Gentlemen, my name is Ruben Ricks, I am 60 years old and have lifted all my life drug free. Never used creatine or anything other than multi vitamins. I had quit powerlifting up until about 3 years ago. I have been lifting raw since I started back. Easier on the pocket book and not as hard on the body pulling on suits etc.
I must admit that I am bad about switching routines, because everything seems to really tire me and it takes longer to recoup. Several months ago I bought Steve Justa's book "Rock Iorn Steel". He has a routine listed where you do the power lifts every other day, squat/bench then deadlift/bench, doing 25 singles on squat and deadlift at 70% max and 12 singles at 70% max on bench. I have midified it a little doing only 80% of the singles (20 and 10) and 3 days a week. Other than being a little boring this is a great routine. I have made great gains on it and when I have completed a workout I actually feel better than when I started. It also does not hurt my joints as bad. Great routine, just thought I would pass it on. Thanks, Ruben.

[pwrlftr]

Got to jump in here because these youngsters just offended me (not really). Guys I'm 57, drug free my whole life, 5"9" and lifted since I was 15 in several weight classes. I lift mainly in NASA, USAPL (when they don't piss me off) and AAU (My favorite). I lift at RAW and one ply equipped mainly in the 181 class and sometimes at 198. I have records in all of those feds so enough said on my ability.
Now you know about me let's talk about the subject. Training routines you can find out here basically suck. In that I mean everybody has a specialty bench routine, squat routine, etc. but you find very few total routines except for Westside which after studying it and using it for years I still don't really understand and the German and Russian volume routines. I like sheiko for conditioning and what Louie might call physical preparedness but they lead to overtraining and injury in drug free and especially older lifters. All of us over the years have a routine that is basic to us and every one of us customizes that routine (if you have any idea what you are doing) to our own set of circumstances. So for what it's worth here is my old basic:

Sunday: Box squats with bands, bench with bands, some type of assistance for my core and back.
Monday: Shoulder work, cardio.
Tues: Running or biking
Wed: Deadlifts, floor press or db press, asst. work such as front squats.
Thurs: Same as Tues.
Friday: Squats and reg bench routines
Saturday: Run between 5-8 miles

I like the Magnificient Mobility exercises for warm up since I am recovering from a back injury.

What I like to do is to take about 8-12 weeks of Sheiko with reduced poundages, (the percentages for old veteran lifters are too high) and progressively condition myself. When I peak I change to lower volume and heavy singles, triples, etc. and start training in loose equipment for safety. Last four weeks before a meet I use tighter gear except for the deadlift which I never use my suit for until lift day.
Last year at 198 I did an equipped 403 bench, 601 squat, 703 deadlift at 198, 370 bench, 550 squat, and 650 deadlift at 181, also did a RAW 629 deadlift and 330 bench at 195 lbs. bodywt.

Then while training for a meet I was doing box squat circa max schedule with 450 weights and 120 in bands. On last rep of last set my back popped and I managed to create two bulging disks at L-4 and L-5. Now I have my maxes at 350, and 400 for my squat and dead lift. I am slowly coming back but who knows if I will ever be able to compete again.
I was injured 4 months ago and have made good progress by using Sheiko for past month and before that just rehab stuff.
So back to routines. Now here goes my philosophy. Use single routine for deadlifts, triples for squats and I like Buckeye once a week for us old guys. Work heavy on each exercise only once a week or adjust that as needed. Get lots of rest and remember we are old but we are also amazing to most average Joes so we have nothing to prove. If you are over 40 you should be having as much fun as possible or find another sport that gives you that.
And the best thing about this sport at any age is I never met a power lifter I did not like, (No I'm not quite as generous as Will Rogers). Met quite a few bodybuilders, lawyers, car dealers and child molesters the world would be better without (I'm a cop so forgive my prejudices).
Like the fellow above said that's my two cents worth and that's probably pricing it to high but hope it helps someone.

[jp]

I just started back using a full body powerlifting routine again. I found an older routine from lifter Jerry Jones which was detailed in a 1972 Strength & Health mag -

A -
Bench press heavy
Incline press
Tricep extensions
Squats heavy
Leg curls - Keeps my knees from hurting when doing heavy squats
High pulls from floor

B-
Bench Press
Reverse grip supine DB bench press - they feel better
Squats higher reps
Sumo deadlifts - heavy
Shrugs

Extra workout consists of -

Pull ups and chin ups - weighted, each for 3-5 sets
Bicep work is optional
Calf raises
Abs

I do the extra workout a day or so after the A or B workout. That way, the squat and bench are trained every 6-8 days and the dead lift is trained every 8-10 days or so.

Works great......

JP