Raw Elite totals?

[liftitup700]

I was wondering why we do not have RAW Elite totals in place? I mean, IPF ELITE for my weight class, which is 242, is 1890. Is it realistic to expect lifters to reach that in just a belt?

It seems lifters are hitting ELITE every day in gear, but I want to stay away from that! Isnt time we as a raw community establish the standard for what is RAW Elite by coordinating with other raw feds, such as the AAU and ADAU, and deciding on what the ELITE totals will be for each class?

Anyone else think this is a good idea??

Thanks for listening!

[bossman]

You have brought up a great point. I think it is something we need to look into starting. I will try to contact other federations and see if they have elite status for their raw lifters. If not maybe we all can start to come up with 1 together.

Paul Bossi

[liftitup700]

As far as I know, the ADAU does not have ELITE status, or does the AAU.

I think it will be up to the RAW organizations to begin discussing this and put it into action. Having the chance for raw lifters to achieve ELITE status may bring more raw lifters in and keep them in.

[liftitup700]

By the way, I have contacted Al Siegel of the ADAU and am awaiting his email response.

[Deleted]

This is a great point. I am a huge supporter of a ranking system in raw lifting.

[liftitup700]

Still havent recieved anything from Al. Hopefully we can get this organized.

[liftitup700]

Anyone have any news on this?

It appears Al from the ADAU is ignoring my emails...

[liftitup700]

I have been in contact with William De Porter of the AAU. He agrees with me, and states a possiblity of lowering the USPF classification by 15% for raw lifters.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

I think that is a good start. As the raw boys and girls get stronger we may need to consider raising them.

[liftitup700]

William De Porter of the AAU is going to bring this up to vote with his board after the first of the year! Big steps everyone-RAW ELITE is coming soon to the AAU!

Will 100% RAW accept the classification as well?

[jaynels]

I thought of a simple formula to decide Raw elite status. And that was to subtract the USAPL American record totals to the elite classification for the USAPL. Why USAPL? Why not. The first link below is the elite total classifications and the second is the american records. I picked the weight classes at random, if you want, it would be interesting to see all the weight classes. And on other Feds.

www.usapowerlifting.com/lifterscorner/ipfclass.shtml
www.usapowerlifting.com/records/american/index.shtml

114 weight class is a 1251 american record total (art); elite (e) is 1061 1251 minus 1061= 190 15% difference

148 is 1703 art; e is 1391 1703 minus 1391= 312 18%
165 is 1868 art; e is 1523 1868 minus 1523=345 18%
198 is 1958 art; e is 1727 1958 minus 1727=231 11%
220 is 2022 art; e is 1820 2022 minus 1820=202 10%
275 is 2255 art; e is 1941 2255 minus 1941=314 13%
275+ is 2529art; e is 2018 2529 minus 2018=511 20% avg lbs: 319 avg%: 15

www.rawpowerlifting.com/records/National%20Powerlifting%20Records.pdf

The data is from the link above, the National records, I compared them to the World records and they were pretty much the same for the weight classes I will compare, in which I took the highest total in disregard of age group/class: 114 is 780 total, 148 is 1180 total, 165 is 1480 total, 198 is 1415 total, 220 is 1695 total, 275 is 1845 total, Shw is 2025 total. So what does this mean for elite totals in comparison to the USAPL? Minus 300 for the elite status. Which would mean a Shw elite would be 1725; 275 elite total would be 1545; 198 would be 1115; and so on. Of course this could be tweaked. 250-300 pounds on average below 100% Raw National record best lifts seems a good indicator of elite.

The only problem I have with the saying, "the gear gives me just 10%" is you will hear someone else say 20% the gear gives me, so it's in the interest and "validity" of a gear lifter to hold that %number as low as possible to make them seem stronger than what they really could do Raw on the platform, not what they say or "think" they could do if they did go raw. I got to deal with the numbers that are here and not guess on the sketchy hypothetical ever changing % of what IPF or APF or whatever legal fed gear could do in the raw vs. gear debate.

Of course this is up to the 100% Fed people, in which If I could give my 18cents worth would be to not go low and and not go so high either and especially not to cave into what other Feds or persons in those Feds want to make them look better. If they want elite 100% Raw status, they can get it, and not only get it but raise the bar for that status--all else is hype and talk. And imagine, when the next gear hero talks about raw elite status, tell him of this forumula--and watch him wriggle.

[Deleted]

Great post with very thought out methodology. I think your approach is very logical and should have merit with those deciding how to determine the Elite Raw Totals.

In my opinion, I would start at 15% below the USAPL Elite totals and then raise them as more lifters enter the sport, just as the WPO has done with their qualifying totals. Elite should be the top 10% of all lifters so it needs to be tough to get in...just my opinion.

[dopar66]

Jaynels, that is an awesome post! I'm impressed by the thought process. (Although I'm depressed about the weight I'd have to lift.) :') I like the idea of your formulaic approach as a long-term possibility, with Hammer's idea as an interim until we get the formula down pat.

Would it be possible to find out the raw lifts of the elite lifters so we can get a "truer" picture of how much the gear is actually adding? 15% sounds reasonable, but it may be really low for, say, superheavys, or really high for lightweights. Just thinking out loud.

Great work on this! Whether it comes to pass or not, it gives me a good idea of where I'd stand! Thanks.

God Bless.
Doug P.

[Michael Neal]

bigarm: by your formula I don't think any heavyweights would ever be elite.

dopar: I think % wise the lighter lifters often get a larger % increase with equipment than heavier lifters. On the shirts and suits the seams are closer together and make the material stronger, on knee wraps the lighter lifter can wrap more times than the heavier lifter. On a standard knee wrap I can go around 5 or 6 times compared to 8 - 10 times for the lighter lifter.

As for elite lifts and totals, I think they should be judged on what the majority of lifters in a class can do. Maybe take the top 25 lifters in each weight class and average their lifts. You are looking for the elite of the organization, not comparing to other orgs. Even if the elite number seemed low, that might attract lifters to gain the elite classification, that in turn would raise the standard for the next year. You could have a rule that the numbers can never come down, only go up. The elite standard could change each year, you could be elite 2006, elite 2007, ect. the organization could sell patches like AAU did in the old days.

[jaynels]

"You should bench twice your body weight. Squat and dead lift three times his body weight"

Bigarm19, that would be awesome, but for a 275er it would mean 275 x 3= 825Sq + 825 DL + 275 x2=550 BP equals a 2200 total, and that's not even putting in the 10% quotient in which it would make it 2400plus, I believe that total done in Raw style has never or rarely been accomplished for the 275's.

242's would be 1936 w/o 10 percent, 220 would be 1760 w/o 10 percent; for the Raw and drug-free this is way much; 1415 is the all time high total in the 198's. If it's that easy to break, I would love to see it--records were meant to be broken.

[Deleted]

I like the idea of raising the bar each year with the possibility of earning patches for each year a person totals Elite.