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Post by Cormac on Jun 20, 2015 5:37:24 GMT -5
Hi all, I have noticed their are quite a number of different ways powerlifters approach their off season training. Some train higher reps with lots of bodybuilding movements and don't really focus much on the main movements, where as others do variations off the main movements such as narrow stance squats, deficit deadlifts, close grip bench etc.
I guess my question is what would you consider an optimal off season training method?
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Post by Ryan on Jun 22, 2015 8:39:25 GMT -5
Hi all, I have noticed their are quite a number of different ways powerlifters approach their off season training. Some train higher reps with lots of bodybuilding movements and don't really focus much on the main movements, where as others do variations off the main movements such as narrow stance squats, deficit deadlifts, close grip bench etc. I guess my question is what would you consider an optimal off season training method? I personally believe that whether in meet-prep or during offseason, the "big 3" should always be the Sun that all other training revolves around. Sure, focus more on hypertrophy (muscle growth achieved by "bodybuilding" movements @higher reps during offseason), but each training session should still be hitched to the wagon of squat, bench or dead because those are the only three lifts you're always trying to get better at for their own sake. So in short, what changes for me is that during meet prep (12 weeks out from a meet or less), here's all you'll find me doing: SQ: squatting and pause squats BN: comp-grip bench, cg bench, incline bench DL: sumo pulls (because that's how I pull in meets), stiff leg DLs, good mornings ....and thats it. Non-meet prep- SQ: squatting and pause squats, quad extensions, single-leg leg press BN: comp-grip bench, cg bench, incline bb bench, incline db bench, floor press, dumbell rows, chins and/or weighted chins, etc.etc. DL: sumo pulls, stiff leg DLs, deficit deads, good mornings, pendlay rows, barbell shrugs, grip work *I generally use the standard principles of straight linear progression no matter how or when I'm training (meaning: whether during meet prep, or offseason), but what will differ between meet-prep and offseason is that the higher-volume/lower poundage aspect of the first 1/3rd of a training cycle will be higher reps and lower % to 1RM in offseason than meet-prep, if that makes sense. In other words, the first 1/3rd of any training cycle I do is gonna be higher volume and lower poundage, but that's magnified during offseason. Also, any and all assistance work during offseason will be aimed at completing 8-10 reps, whereas any amount of assistance work done during meet-prep will not ever exceed 5 reps. I'm sure others will chime in with what works for them. This is just my formula because it's basic and easy to follow, and generally works for me. -Ryan |
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Post by Cormac on Jun 22, 2015 15:49:57 GMT -5
Thank you Ryan that clears up a lot of confusion I was having. Their is almost too much information to digest out there. My former coach wrote me an off season program that consisted of box squats, no deadlifting except light speed work, and the only regular squatting I was doing was 5 x 20 which according to your advice well exceeds the 8-10 rep range. I was also doing lots of exercises like goblet squats, split squats etc which seemed totally non specific. He kept telling me to train like a bodybuilder in the off season. But most bodybuilders build there massive legs with squats, leg presses, leg curls, lunges step ups etc.
Also thank you for recommending Jonnie Candito he's a brilliant lifter and i'm sure his programming is on point.
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Post by osu122975 on Jun 29, 2015 6:59:35 GMT -5
I'm older so the volume has been cut back on the main lifts and added to the body building work. I recover much faster and the frequency has dropped back a lot as well.
Right now, I make very little changes to my routine in sets/reps and weight on the bodybuilding stuff. I stick w/ the same exercises until the scheme begins to feel easier. Then I'll adjust.
For instance, last bench workout went 135x10 135x5 225x5 225x3 315x2 sling 335x3 raw 335x1 sling 335x3 then lying extensions 30x10 40x8 50x5 50x5 DB rows 60x10 80x8 100x8 then some high rep band work for the triceps for a set of 50 and face pulls for a set of 50.
Then I take a full two days off. But that's what works for me now.
When I train for a meet, the intensity will go up and the bodybuilding will take a back seat.
It's not rocket science. Try things and see what works.
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Post by Cormac on Jun 29, 2015 15:49:27 GMT -5
Osu-I can see your point, your keeping the main work in but keeping the intensity moderate and the rest of the volume is made up of exercises to build say the triceps , lats , rear delts etc. I like your style of programming and I have and always will always think that a certain amount of bodybuilding volume should be used in any program, I actually want to look like I lift aswell as be strong. Building up them tricep and lat muscles can only help Benching.
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Post by osu122975 on Jun 30, 2015 19:09:05 GMT -5
Lats are overrated in the bench. Don't let anyone fool you. Raw benching is delts, pecs and triceps w/ a little help from upper back. Build your upper back by focusing on controlling the eccentric portion of the bench. Slowly lowering will help you stabilize more. That way when you get to those maxes, you can control it better.
What do raw benchers tear up when they lift? Torn pecs and rotators in the delts and some will even tear triceps. I don't remember ever seeing a torn lat from benching, but my bet is someone may have.....say 1 in a billion and probably because their lat was on the way out anyway.
As far as offseason, which is pretty much full time for me right now, I don't like to push it anymore because I never know when I'm gonna do a meet. Why beat myself up for no reason?
IMO, save the intensity for meet prep. I went hard, heavy and frequent for quite a while. What I'm now learning is making small adjustments. I'm learning that doing the "same" workout really isn't as negative as some would tell you. I've made mistakes listening to some but the truth is, there really isn't a need for big changes and thousands of exercises if the program continues to work making small changes as the workouts get easier.
Ed Coan is a PERFECT example of "take your time". Look at his history starting in the 165's. As he slowly got stronger, the weights progressively went up but all in small changes. My advice is to make as little of changes as possible. Pick your favorite exercises and do them. Keep the sets/reps/weight the same until it becomes easier then add 5lbs or a set or a rep or two. Then do a meet. Did you get better? That's the question. If you got better, why do anything different?
Don't fall for the hype. Experiment yourself and trust the small changes. After all, a garbage man didn't start out throwing trash easily. It took time before he could handle the load. But day after day, he got stronger doing the same workout until he could handle the load much easier. He stuck w/ it and didn't change it. Only when it's easier do you try and make it harder.
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Post by Ryan on Jul 1, 2015 6:42:27 GMT -5
Lats are overrated in the bench. Don't let anyone fool you. Raw benching is delts, pecs and triceps w/ a little help from upper back. Build your upper back by focusing on controlling the eccentric portion of the bench. Slowly lowering will help you stabilize more. That way when you get to those maxes, you can control it better. I agree completely with this. Geared benchers need their lats for stability and to actually help bring the weight down to their chest, because the shirt fights them from touching. However, there's no real good reason for a raw bencher (that I've read about or experienced in my own short time in this sport) to be concerned with lat hypertrophy or even lat strength. In fact, to take this a step further, lats arent really even a hugely important muscle group at all for raw lifting. Think about it: when you deadlift, you're not rowing the weight. Granted, getting stronger EVERYWHERE is the key to moving more weight in general (combined with good form, which makes your strength ceiling higher, and helps avoid injuries), but I don't personally see the point to focusing on lat work for any specific purpose as a raw lifter. In fact, I personally believe that good foot positioning and subsequent leg drive combined with a good arch are even more important than triceps strength increase (I can say this beyond a shadow of a doubt for myself, anyway). I certainly didn't mean to run off on a tangent, but because OSU raised a very good "side point" to this topic, I just wanted to voice my agreement. -Ryan |
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