Alternative to box deadlift for sumo stance in Sheiko cycle

[avaavanedawn]

So I'm doing a Sheiko cycle, and it says I should be doing deadlifts from boxes, with heavier weights than the regular deadlifts. I take this to mean that it's the actual barbell with weights on that should be on a box, effectively making it a rack pull. Now problem is I don't have a rack which would allow the sumo position, which is my preferred deadlift position and thus what I'm training and hoping to improve. I also don't have any boxes, and putting the barbell on weight plates is quite unstable.

Now. What's the reason for doing the rack pulls to begin with? To become accustomed to heavier weights? It improves grip, for sure. But if it's mainly for improving lock-out, then I don't think there's any reason for me to train it, since I never have problems with that, only lifting the weight off the ground. Perhaps instead of the box deadlifts I should actually be training deadlifts with my feet elevated, but with a lighter weight than usual? Since I don't have boxes and the weight plates are unstable, I might achieve this with the help of oly shoes or wider grip. I'm assuming that both of these change the mechanics of the exercise to some degree. Is this perhaps a bad thing then, and I should focus on trying to find some sort of boxes to stand on while in the sumo stance? I mean it's problematic for several reasons, one of which is that when going down with the barbell, I can't seem to take it straight down, but graze the plate weights which are used for elevating the barbell, and in general come too close to my feet while doing so (a problem I do not have when just doing the regular sumo lift).

Perhaps the carry-over to the regular sumo is good enough for me to just take a wider grip and in such a way increasing my strength off the ground? What do you think?

[3speed]

Without going into a detailed explanation here, the deadlift off of blocks is an entirely different lift when compared to rack pulls.  Rack pulls are not an effective deadlift accessory outside of mentally getting used to handling heavier weight - everybody turns rack pulls into reverse squats instead of working the deadlift groove.

For most lifters, the weak point during the performance of the conventional deadlift is just below the knees. The pull off of blocks is used primarily to work that weak point. The bar is set at the height that is just below the sticking point. This eliminates all momentum and forces the lifter to train his/her weakest point from a dead stop - a very effective technique.  The easiest way to set this up is to use a few 4X4s and a couple of small sheets of plywood. The plywood can be used to fine tune the height.

For most sumo pullers, the weakest point of the lift is just off of the floor. A very effective technique to work on this problem is to performs stop-and-go deads with around 75 to 80 percent of your 1RM. These are done by initiating your pull as normal, coming to a dead stop a couple of inches off of the floor for 2-3 seconds and then resuming the pull from that point.

As you suggested at the end of your post, one of the most effective accessory exercises for either form of deadlift is the opposite form.  As a sumo puller, i would strongly suggest you replace the deads off box (elevated deads) with either stop-and-go deads, conventional deads or snatch grip deads. Any one  - or combination - of those three will be a big help to you if programmed properly.

[avaavanedawn]

Thanks, appreciate your thorough answer. Stop-and-gos sound effective, now I just have to tweak the programming in order to lower the intensity because there is not way I'll be doing those "pause deadlifts" with 80-90% of my max!

I am curious as to why you think regular deadlifts would be useful at all for a sumo deadlifter. When I pull conventional my back gets quite tired for 1-2 days, and it feels like it's just wasted energy. Perhaps the back fatigue is due to a fault of technique, but even if that is the case, I would be better off improving my technique for the sumo, no?

[3speed]

May 7, 2015 4:31:25 GMT -5 avaavanedawn said:

Thanks, appreciate your thorough answer. Stop-and-gos sound effective, now I just have to tweak the programming in order to lower the intensity because there is not way I'll be doing those "pause deadlifts" with 80-90% of my max!
That is why I suggested you use 75 to 80 percent of your 1RM. You might even consider going a little lighter to start. Another advantage to this exercise is that, when you pause, you have an opportunity to assess your form.

I am curious as to why you think regular deadlifts would be useful at all for a sumo deadlifter. When I pull conventional my back gets quite tired for 1-2 days, and it feels like it's just wasted energy. Perhaps the back fatigue is due to a fault of technique, but even if that is the case, I would be better off improving my technique for the sumo, no?
My main pulling style is sumo so that you understand I am not bashing sumo. While sumo is a very technical exercise that primarily works the hips and thighs, conventional is more of a back workout that turns into a war with the bar where brute force wins. Training conventional as an accessory will strenghten your back much more so than sumo will. Any time you can strenghten part of your lift, it is a win. The very fact that pulling conventional wears on your back so much tells me that you need to work it. Your body will adapt and get stronger.
This isn't just my opinion. If you study the routines of some of the greatest deadlifters in history, you will find that almost all of them worked both forms of deadlift regardless of their primary form.

[avaavanedawn]

I've been working the conventional deadlift for years and just recently switched to sumo, and yet my back still gets fatigued from conventional lifts. But if the greats do both movements, then it makes sense I would do too sometimes. Hm, but do those that pull conventional even bother with sumo, or is it just the other way around?