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Post by osu122975 on Jan 12, 2014 17:54:05 GMT -5
Rock: Well, say your max is 350! The goal of this system is to see how strong you are at the END of the workout. If your 1 rep max is 350 from the start of the workout and if your 1 rep bench max is 300lbs at the end of the workout then you lost 50lbs of strength at the end of the workout. The secret to my training system is to decrease the gap of strength between the start of the workout and the end of the workout. As soon as this guy is benching 350 at the end of the workout instead of the at the beginning, he will start seeing himself benching 390 at the beginning of the workout, then 430 and so on and so fourth..
Can anyone explain this to me? This is Rock Lewis' interview with Critical Bench a while back. I can't wrap my head around the philosophy.
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Post by dbunch on Jan 13, 2014 6:01:52 GMT -5
nope - that just sounds like craziness to me.
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Post by 3speed on Jan 13, 2014 8:50:14 GMT -5
I spent a couple of hours talking to Rock about his benching a few years ago. The routine he explained to me goes contrary to how most people set up their training. He is a strong believer in volume work and training in a fatigued state. He was benching > 600 at the time at a bw of ~ 230. He told me a normal workout would be 10-15 sets of 10 with 315. I can see how the fatigued training would mesh with the above statement but I would not see the connection without my previous conversation.
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Post by osu122975 on Jan 13, 2014 11:29:04 GMT -5
I spent a couple of hours talking to Rock about his benching a few years ago. The routine he explained to me goes contrary to how most people set up their training. He is a strong believer in volume work and training in a fatigued state. He was benching > 600 at the time at a bw of ~ 230. He told me a normal workout would be 10-15 sets of 10 with 315. I can see how the fatigued training would mesh with the above statement but I would not see the connection without my previous conversation. So he basically picked a predetermined amount of weight and reps and would just go and go until fatigue set in and felt he couldn't get the required reps at that weight? At least I think that's how I'm understanding what you're saying. I'm sure every workout wasn't that way, but at least it's some better insight as to what he was trying to accomplish. I was setting up my training similar but always making 20lb jumps starting at 50% for a predetermined amount of reps, but much much lower reps and I know that worked for me so the higher reps would probably do the same thing as well without making jumps. Thanks 3speed. I really do appreciate the insight. I'd never figured that out.
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Post by George on Jan 28, 2014 19:33:34 GMT -5
OSU: I read it and was lost for a second, then I keyed in on "end of the workout". I was reading it to mean at the end of a program, like a six week bench program in which 50lbs dropped. I believe he is referencing endurance and strength per workout, meaning if you handle x amount of weight, say 10 sets of 10 with 315 (as Woody referenced) and it destroyed your tri's till you were a wobbly mess, but after a few weeks the same 10 x 10 with 315 had you feeling good to bang something heavy out, you are gaining.
Matt Kroc's program seems similar based on this seemingly rare power building concept (he keeps a day somewhat stagnant with the same weight and rep scheme while dropping reps and increasing numbers the next...best of both worlds). Must of us are transfixed on progression of sorts, and rightfully so. Typically it means if sets or weight is increased, you gain. Try thinking of the concept differently. Imagine doing 10 x 10 or 5 x 10 with the same weight for three weeks, even though you handled it ok the first week. It sounds counter productive, we should be advancing right? But, if that same weight is becoming easier and easier, then we are still gaining, and we might not realize it right away. We seem to have become devout to the idea of changing the training stimulus, a plateau is eminent, etc. There is no doubt if all you could did was 200 for 5 x 10 every workout, a plateau would come, but I think we kinda stopped wondering how long that would take. It is still work being done, the muscles are moving. Yes, the body adapts, but does this change somewhat when you are reaching genetic limits? With neuro efficiency and all the other science working for those of us still climbing, I believe the adaptions are quicker the younger or more inexperienced the lifter. But when your connective tissue and neurons are all primed for peak, does the progressive overload hold as much water? I believe the plateau phase becomes so long reached at this stage that a steady bombardment of the same thing, such as 315 for over a hundred reps, might be good enough to keep illiciting a response, even if minor, for extended periods. I mean, 300 for over a hundred... that's a lot of work...lol. I do not think it is a fatigue design or anything more than just doing work, pumping something heavy.
That is my interpretation of Rock's training. Woody, I may be wrong but I believe Rock's training was being discussed at the 07 national in Richmond after his exhibition and I remember the 10 x 10 approach.
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Post by bighawgfsu on Jan 30, 2014 0:33:41 GMT -5
Excellent insight to the vague description...3 speed,osu and george
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Post by osu122975 on Feb 26, 2015 21:09:09 GMT -5
The thing I don't get is if he is referencing the word "workout" to really mean program, why would anyone be weaker at the end of a program than at the beginning? If you're 1RM is 350 at the beginning of the program and 300 at the end of it, that program basically is sapping strength. Doesn't make sense to me.
Maybe what he does is train the 4-6 weeks at 3x/week doing 10's. Then drops to 2x/week doing 4x10 and 6x5 in the same workout. During the 2x/week workouts, they do the 4x10 and 6x5 then work up to a max single in that workout. My guess is during this phase they are trying to close the gap between the intial max while fresh and the max after the 4x10/6x5 max single (fatigued single).
For example: Max bench 375 Weeks 1-6 225 x 10-20 sets x 10 reps Weeks 7-? 225x4x10 275x5x6 then work up to max single
He said their openers are the weights they hit at the end of the workout. A max single is discovered while under fatigue rather than a fresh normal work up to a max single.
George may have already meant it the way I'm describing but maybe not and I want to be corrected if not.
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Post by nachtegaal45 on Mar 9, 2015 21:23:24 GMT -5
Surprised I haven't seen more commentary regarding Rock,who I call the virtuoso of benching,lately.
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