|
Post by osu122975 on Feb 12, 2013 20:25:28 GMT -5
I'm curious as to what everyone's squat form looks like - particularly raw.
If anyone on here has any vids they can link up on here for me to look at I'd appreciate it.
I think my knees must come to far forward which I think is leading to my knees bothering me.
I have gotten some hands on advice from an 800lb single ply squatter who always wants me to sit back and squat wide, which really puts me in a weak position.
Any tips, tricks or cues you guys have learned to help you squat properly would help me out a bunch.
I usually squat a little wider than shoulder width, drive my butt out and knees opened up, and then begin to sit down keeping my back arched as hard as possible.
I could really use the help....
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on Feb 12, 2013 21:22:17 GMT -5
According to Paul Carter who is an accomplished raw lifter, throw away most of what you've heard related to squatting from guys who squat in gear.
Here's a link to one of his squat blog pages:www.lift-run-bang.com/2010/04/developing-your-raw-squat-pt-3.html
Also, I'm no squatting authority considering that I've only been at powerlifting for 2 years now, but I follow the form Carter suggests and am squatting just about 500# @197. Nothing remarkable but definitely respectable and I've not yet been anything close to hurt, aside of some hip soreness which came about due to not properly stretching and mobilizing.
If you want to see any of my squat vids, you can click through the YouTube link in my profile.
-Ryan
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2013 21:24:22 GMT -5
try this out for a while using bodyweight. youtu.be/ac50QhqtLJ0having your feet under the side of the bench. where you cant see them. then squat with out letting your knee fall forward and not pressing against the bench. if you go down slow enough you can begin to notice what muscles you use and what is lacking. my first rep is narrow for quad squat second squat is wide stance. is what i used last str phase to get to 455 on squat. its not sumo stance. its wide to the point where my toes point 45 degree out. third rep. is what im trying right now. its at shoulder width.
|
|
|
Post by osu122975 on Feb 12, 2013 23:15:43 GMT -5
am squatting just about 500# @197. Nothing remarkable but definitely respectable and I've not yet been anything close to hurt, -Ryan Oh yea nothing remarkable LOL!!! Dude that's more than respectable - that's a great squat! I see your knees come forward quite a bit.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on Feb 12, 2013 23:36:41 GMT -5
am squatting just about 500# @197. Nothing remarkable but definitely respectable and I've not yet been anything close to hurt, -Ryan Oh yea nothing remarkable LOL!!! Dude that's more than respectable - that's a great squat! I see your knees come forward quite a bit. I'm a work in progress for sure, but I appreciate the kind words! You're right my knees come forward but I try to focus more on maintaining proper bar path than worrying about my knees drifting fwd. Reason being, its hard for us raw guys to squat really wide, and width is really the only way to ensure that your knees stay behind toes. I also don't really give the appearance of "sitting back" all that much, but I have found that its pretty tough to really sit back without gear, and again without a really wide/sumo stance. I just try to focus as much as possible on staying super tight through the whole lift and focus on keeping my chest up. I also make sure to film from the side so that not only can I keep tabs on my depth, but also to make sure that the bar path looks right, which it has for the past few months. When I watch my vids, the ones where I look most solid are when I can drawn a straight line from the bar down to roughly my ankle or just in front of ankle. Any more forward than that, and I'm not generally keeping my chest up enough. Also, I'm a big believer in low bar position especially for raw. It promotes bar path alignment and keeps you from having to fight as much to keep your chest up. -Ryan
|
|
|
Post by George on Feb 13, 2013 1:32:37 GMT -5
OSU: Leverages are vital to getting technique down. Here is a short video to give some food for thought... www.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/squatI'm stocky and 5'9", and have modeled myself after Ed Coan. At 1:20 in this link, I call this perfect form (for him). One thing he does and I try to maintain is limited knee movement. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UxaJRuTtDYIf your style ultimately calls for a wider stance and your single ply advisee was right based on your leverages...than the "weak" position you describe is likely more attributable to having tranistioned from the more upright, quad dominant stance your accustomed to, to having to share power now with the glutes and hamstrings (plus more torque on back). You may have to be humble for a while to adjust, but the payoff will be worth it. Youtube searches for "rippetoe squat" will provide several videos with in depth analysis of form. Watching videos of others who do not have your leverages will likely brew up several forms that wont fit. Rip does a good job of explaining issues among various styles in one take. The bar placement suggestion is also critical, and rippetoe discusses placement issues in his vids. If the bar is high and your base is wide, you putting a lot of undue stress onto your back. Here's an experiment for the concept: Make a peace sign with your dominant hand. Try to maintain the "V" in your fore and middle finger while trying to squeeze them together with the fore and thumb from your opposite hand. You'll notice you can resist more the closer to your hand you squeeze, and less toward the tips due to leverage. The longer the lever, the harder the work. Ryan: I like lift-run-bang. 3speed turned me onto it a while back.
|
|
|
Post by osu122975 on Feb 13, 2013 12:01:54 GMT -5
Oh yea nothing remarkable LOL!!! Dude that's more than respectable - that's a great squat! I see your knees come forward quite a bit. I'm a work in progress for sure, but I appreciate the kind words! You're right my knees come forward but I try to focus more on maintaining proper bar path than worrying about my knees drifting fwd. Reason being, its hard for us raw guys to squat really wide, and width is really the only way to ensure that your knees stay behind toes. I also don't really give the appearance of "sitting back" all that much, but I have found that its pretty tough to really sit back without gear, and again without a really wide/sumo stance. I just try to focus as much as possible on staying super tight through the whole lift and focus on keeping my chest up. I also make sure to film from the side so that not only can I keep tabs on my depth, but also to make sure that the bar path looks right, which it has for the past few months. When I watch my vids, the ones where I look most solid are when I can drawn a straight line from the bar down to roughly my ankle or just in front of ankle. Any more forward than that, and I'm not generally keeping my chest up enough. Also, I'm a big believer in low bar position especially for raw. It promotes bar path alignment and keeps you from having to fight as much to keep your chest up. -Ryan I hope I didn't sound disrespectful about your knees - I squat the same way you do for the most part and try to keep the bar over my heels. Sitting back just doesn't seem right to me - particularly raw. I've never squatted in a suit, but I guess sitting back makes the suit work better (also depending on the suit design I suppose as well).
|
|
|
Post by osu122975 on Feb 13, 2013 12:15:28 GMT -5
OSU: Leverages are vital to getting technique down. Here is a short video to give some food for thought... www.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/squatI'm stocky and 5'9", and have modeled myself after Ed Coan. At 1:20 in this link, I call this perfect form (for him). One thing he does and I try to maintain is limited knee movement. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UxaJRuTtDYIf your style ultimately calls for a wider stance and your single ply advisee was right based on your leverages...than the "weak" position you describe is likely more attributable to having tranistioned from the more upright, quad dominant stance your accustomed to, to having to share power now with the glutes and hamstrings (plus more torque on back). You may have to be humble for a while to adjust, but the payoff will be worth it. Youtube searches for "rippetoe squat" will provide several videos with in depth analysis of form. Watching videos of others who do not have your leverages will likely brew up several forms that wont fit. Rip does a good job of explaining issues among various styles in one take. The bar placement suggestion is also critical, and rippetoe discusses placement issues in his vids. If the bar is high and your base is wide, you putting a lot of undue stress onto your back. Here's an experiment for the concept: Make a peace sign with your dominant hand. Try to maintain the "V" in your fore and middle finger while trying to squeeze them together with the fore and thumb from your opposite hand. You'll notice you can resist more the closer to your hand you squeeze, and less toward the tips due to leverage. The longer the lever, the harder the work. Ryan: I like lift-run-bang. 3speed turned me onto it a while back. I'm a shorter lifter as well 5-8" 240lbs. I've always admired Kirk Karwoski's style and I know his knees came forward when he squatted. Yea, believe me, it's humbling trying to go wider and sit back - the pressure on my back is definitely more noticeable than squatting more narrow. I notice more pressure on the inside of my thighs (adductors?) and hamstrings for sure. I can see going wider and sitting back more if I was taller (good video of CT explaining that), but I maintain the same perception as he does concerning leverages. While bar path may be less going wider (sumo for DL), I'm just no where near as strong as I am with a narrower stance (and conventional pulling). Thanks for the input. It is greatly appreciated and something I will continue to work on. I've also been told by the same single ply guy to squat a little higher when practicing technique, which I don't know how much that would help. Box squats seems to relieve the knee pressure for sure allowing my to squat wide and sit back on the box. I'm just not sure how helpful it really is if I squat more narrow in competition.
|
|
|
Post by Ryan on Feb 13, 2013 12:27:54 GMT -5
OSU: Leverages are vital to getting technique down. Here is a short video to give some food for thought... www.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/squatI'm stocky and 5'9", and have modeled myself after Ed Coan. At 1:20 in this link, I call this perfect form (for him). One thing he does and I try to maintain is limited knee movement. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UxaJRuTtDYIf your style ultimately calls for a wider stance and your single ply advisee was right based on your leverages...than the "weak" position you describe is likely more attributable to having tranistioned from the more upright, quad dominant stance your accustomed to, to having to share power now with the glutes and hamstrings (plus more torque on back). You may have to be humble for a while to adjust, but the payoff will be worth it. Youtube searches for "rippetoe squat" will provide several videos with in depth analysis of form. Watching videos of others who do not have your leverages will likely brew up several forms that wont fit. Rip does a good job of explaining issues among various styles in one take. The bar placement suggestion is also critical, and rippetoe discusses placement issues in his vids. If the bar is high and your base is wide, you putting a lot of undue stress onto your back. Here's an experiment for the concept: Make a peace sign with your dominant hand. Try to maintain the "V" in your fore and middle finger while trying to squeeze them together with the fore and thumb from your opposite hand. You'll notice you can resist more the closer to your hand you squeeze, and less toward the tips due to leverage. The longer the lever, the harder the work. Ryan: I like lift-run-bang. 3speed turned me onto it a while back. I'm a shorter lifter as well 5-8" 240lbs. I've always admired Kirk Karwoski's style and I know his knees came forward when he squatted. Yea, believe me, it's humbling trying to go wider and sit back - the pressure on my back is definitely more noticeable than squatting more narrow. I notice more pressure on the inside of my thighs (adductors?) and hamstrings for sure. I can see going wider and sitting back more if I was taller (good video of CT explaining that), but I maintain the same perception as he does concerning leverages. While bar path may be less going wider (sumo for DL), I'm just no where near as strong as I am with a narrower stance (and conventional pulling). Thanks for the input. It is greatly appreciated and something I will continue to work on. I've also been told by the same single ply guy to squat a little higher when practicing technique, which I don't know how much that would help. Box squats seems to relieve the knee pressure for sure allowing my to squat wide and sit back on the box. I'm just not sure how helpful it really is if I squat more narrow in competition. I don't know (personally speaking) of any benefit to cutting depth when squatting, but again I'm not an expert. Also, I've read in a couple of places that box squats actually put your knees in a more prone position than regular squats. Now, on the box squat topic: The field is about split down the middle as to whether box squats even serve a purpose in raw lifting. Some people find them useful, others don't, but the one thing that no one can argue is that they are different lift entirely from squatting, so if you use box squats in your training any more than sparingly, you risk not only potential knee problems, but also frigging up your squat form. Here it is from someone who knows a whole lot more about this stuff than I do: gregtrainer.com/2012/04/14/thoughts-on-the-box-squat-for-raw-lifters/Generally speaking, I'm not a big fan of partial movement anything because I subscribe to the school of thought that says if you simply get stronger, the weight will move, versus using partial movement exercises to help get through "sticking points". I know this is a whole separate "pandora's box" that I'd rather not open and get flamed for, so I'll end by saying I'm only talking about advice I've taken that to this point has worked for me ;D -Ryan
|
|