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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 13:14:14 GMT -5
i clearly think you should be able to gain a minimum of 5lbs on your max weekly. for normal people
Every time you hit the gym there should be some strength gains.
with the "bodyweight and powerlifting" thread i was trying to point out that different bodyweights start out with different weight lifting numbers but to a certain degree.
like for a 150 lb man, he should be able to get to 300 lbs on bench.
for a 200 lb man, he should be able to get to 300 lbs on bench a little easier. 50 lbs of extra bodyweight could be muscle/fat.
pretend they are both the same height. since height can affect weight but that would just complicate this topic.
depending on what numbers you start out with on the lift, your numbers could explode with increase but eventually reach the 5lb weekly increase.
For instance.
the climb from 100 to 200 on bench, should be really fast or almost instantly.
the climb from 200 to 300 on bench, should be slower but doable.
the climb above 300 on bench, you should reach the point where you should increase by 5lbs minimum, weekly.
what im suggesting is that if your not increasing by 5 lbs weekly on max.
you are
-training wrong
-health issues, bodyfat too high
-muscle imbalance, yes this affects powerlifter as well
-muscle recovery
1) i think people should be under 24% bodyfat. its healthy and you can see minor muscle definition.
2) muscle recovery - on average the muscle takes 48 hours to fully repair unless your on roids where your body is push to recover faster because of the hormone production. you might not feel that your body needs the 2 day recovery but you will see it in your strength gains. there are some people who can recover faster then 2 days but why risk the chance >.<
3) muscle imbalance - i believe in having muscle balance because it affects posture and such. your body is split into push and pulls. like chest and back. your back wont grow as fast if your chest doesnt grow with it. its hard to grow big lats if your chest is small.
Arms is somewhat harder to balance. tricep has 3 heads while biceps has 2 heads. tricep should be bigger.
4) having all the above and your gains are still not 5lbs weekly, then your training is not going right.
rep ranges play a key role in training. you can research on this since there are so many different thoughts on this.
For me.
reps
1 to 4 are power and strength
6 to 8 mainly mass
8 to 12 mainly hypertrophy and some mass.
above 12 are for like cardio, helps train the circulation of air through muscle. minor hypertrophy.
misconception that cardio is for losing weight. it helps circulate the blood flow, it helps powerlifting alot. how you do cardio is what is important. 1 hour walk on treadmill is not cardio. if your heartrate is not elevated high enough. cardio exercise is like lifting. it need its own time and resources (food) or it will affect powerlifting recovery.
5 to 10 minute of in the target heart rate zone for cardio is far better then 1 hour treadmill walk.
gonna have to look up hypertrophy, i cant explain it well.
breathing circlulation does affect how well the reps work.
during my break weeks. i do 6 to 8 rep ranges to condition my muscles since i dont really have any real cardio training. too poor to afford that.
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Post by osu122975 on Jan 6, 2013 18:14:40 GMT -5
steady state cardio always has and always will be the best way to lose fat and keep muscle if that is the goal.
if it's just to burn calories regardless of the mission - it all depends on your timeline of what style of cardio to do.
steady state cardio also helps with recovery.
there is a calculator/formula on the web where you can find your target heart rate based on body weight, height, and age. most people can accomplish their target heart rate with a brisk walk unless they are in very good shape, then they gotta work a little harder to burn fat.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 19:42:45 GMT -5
steady state cardio always has and always will be the best way to lose fat and keep muscle if that is the goal. if it's just to burn calories regardless of the mission - it all depends on your timeline of what style of cardio to do. steady state cardio also helps with recovery. there is a calculator/formula on the web where you can find your target heart rate based on body weight, height, and age. most people can accomplish their target heart rate with a brisk walk unless they are in very good shape, then they gotta work a little harder to burn fat. the cardio part is not that important. the "average gains of strength" is the main topic of this thread >.< |
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Post by dbunch on Jan 6, 2013 20:22:19 GMT -5
I don’t mean to sound rude but did you do the math on that? Let say my max is today at 200. If I add 5 lbs a week to my max by this time next year I should be able to lift over 460 lbs. That is just not doable for anyone. For a beginner a 70 to 100 increase is great but the more advance lifter will be lucky to add 10 or 20 pounds on to their lift in a year (on Average) and there will come a time when 2 and 3 lbs gains are as good as it’s going to get.
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Post by Ryan on Jan 6, 2013 20:59:27 GMT -5
I don’t mean to sound rude but did you do the math on that? Let say my max is today at 200. If I add 5 lbs a week to my max by this time next year I should be able to lift over 460 lbs. That is just not doable for anyone. For a beginner a 70 to 100 increase is great but the more advance lifter will be lucky to add 10 or 20 pounds on to their lift in a year (on Average) and there will come a time when 2 and 3 lbs gains are as good as it’s going to get. Spot on. I'd also like to know what kind of study or powerlifting-centric experience this "adding poundage constantly" theory comes from. I didn't want to be the first one to call this into question (so I'm glad I'm not.... Lol), but I'm definitely questioning the validity here for sure. If we showed this thread to Paul Carter, Mike Tuchsherer, Jim Wendler or even the Louie Simmons disciples that speckle the powerlifting landscape, they'd either chuckle and shake their heads, or they'd wonder if the author of the thread is truly serious. Just saying...... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 22:46:28 GMT -5
hmm.
i do a 6 week strength phase. 30lb increase on total. with a 2 to 3 week break for conditioning.
i had a max of 300 last march of 2012.
im at 445 on bench. tog last thursday. theoretically i should be at 450.
i even push my deadlift and squat to the almost the same level as bench >.< for balance.
"adding poundage constantly" is the proof of strength growth.
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Post by Ryan on Jan 6, 2013 22:59:14 GMT -5
hmm. i do a 6 week strength phase. 30lb increase on total. with a 2 to 3 week break for conditioning. i had a max of 300 last march of 2012. im at 445 on bench. tog last thursday. theoretically i should be at 450. i even push my deadlift and squat to the almost the same level as bench >.< for balance. "adding poundage constantly" is the proof of strength growth. Actually, never mind you're right. I can tell from most of your other posts on this forum that you clearly know everything so I'll defer to you from now on instead of other powerlifting and strength training authorities . I remember what it was like to be 20-something and have all the answers. Lol Good luck to you my friend! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 23:20:44 GMT -5
hmm. okay.
none of my numbers matter since i dont have credibility.
i have said this before. but all my posts are opinions.
sorry that it could not be of any help
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Post by Rosario-546 on Jan 7, 2013 7:16:31 GMT -5
I don’t mean to sound rude but did you do the math on that? Let say my max is today at 200. If I add 5 lbs a week to my max by this time next year I should be able to lift over 460 lbs. That is just not doable for anyone. For a beginner a 70 to 100 increase is great but the more advance lifter will be lucky to add 10 or 20 pounds on to their lift in a year (on Average) and there will come a time when 2 and 3 lbs gains are as good as it’s going to get. Ha, Exactly. I've put 5lbs on my bench a year over the last 3-years, that's 15lbs and I'm very pleased. I figure at 40 if I can bench 405@181, clean and at that bw, that will be one Hades of a lift. 5lbs a week just sounds silly, IMO. I did enjoy the read though, keep it up. |
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Post by Ryan on Jan 7, 2013 10:10:32 GMT -5
I don’t mean to sound rude but did you do the math on that? Let say my max is today at 200. If I add 5 lbs a week to my max by this time next year I should be able to lift over 460 lbs. That is just not doable for anyone. For a beginner a 70 to 100 increase is great but the more advance lifter will be lucky to add 10 or 20 pounds on to their lift in a year (on Average) and there will come a time when 2 and 3 lbs gains are as good as it’s going to get. Ha, Exactly. I've put 5lbs on my bench a year over the last 3-years, that's 15lbs and I'm very pleased. I figure at 40 if I can bench 405@181, clean and at that bw, that will be one Hades of a lift. 5lbs a week just sounds silly, IMO. I did enjoy the read though, keep it up. I could not agree more. BTW- a 405bn @181 has got to be at or near world class for raw. That's definitely something to be proud of once you get there for sure! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 14:38:32 GMT -5
My English is pretty bad.
Language barrier I guess.
I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now and work on my english.
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Post by osu122975 on Jan 7, 2013 17:13:20 GMT -5
steady state cardio always has and always will be the best way to lose fat and keep muscle if that is the goal. if it's just to burn calories regardless of the mission - it all depends on your timeline of what style of cardio to do. steady state cardio also helps with recovery. there is a calculator/formula on the web where you can find your target heart rate based on body weight, height, and age. most people can accomplish their target heart rate with a brisk walk unless they are in very good shape, then they gotta work a little harder to burn fat. the cardio part is not that important. the "average gains of strength" is the main topic of this thread >.< pretty sure you brought up the cardio part - i only commented on what you wrote. |
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Post by dbunch on Jan 7, 2013 17:36:13 GMT -5
My English is pretty bad. Language barrier I guess. I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now and work on my english. Tu – I hope that is not the case. You do post some really good stuff. This one was just a little over the top. You have to admit that a 5 pound a week gain on any one lift is very aggressive and is just not sustainable indefinitely. Not sure if the language barrier comment was sarcasm or not but assuming it wasn’t and English is your second language I really wouldn’t have guess that to be true based on you posts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2013 19:42:55 GMT -5
ehh. my grammar is pretty bad and im pretty sure my 10 year old niece, can speak and write better than me.
i guess Vietnamese would be my second language. i know a little of japanese and spanish.
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Post by 3speed on Jan 12, 2013 10:54:18 GMT -5
Fred Hatfield's Peaking routines used weights based roughly in the 80-85% range and said that the 1 rep max that the percentages were based on would increase weekly during the peaking cycle. He said that the increases would vary from person to person, but a 3lb/week increase in bench max and a 5lb/week increase in squat and deadlift max would be about average.
That comes from one of the most technical geniuses in the history of strength sports and concerns the peaking process/cycle. There is no way any lifter at or above the intermediate level is going to increase his 1RM by 5lbs/week on a long term consistent basis without considerable chemical help.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2013 17:00:41 GMT -5
On the first 4 weeks of my strength cycle.
My sets sit in the 90% to 98% range. Negative is at 104%.
80 to 85% is what I do during my break week, the 6 to 8 rep range.
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Post by toolpod on Jan 21, 2013 15:03:22 GMT -5
I thought you just did a double at 455 last week? or was that deads? I apologize, your logs are a little confusing to me...it would be easier to follow if you wrote what you did, not what you're going to do. Either way, I think you are making the mistake of looking at your subjective experience and trying to apply that generally to everyone else. A) You are obviously genetically gifted for the bench, at 5'2" and 170-ish, you have tremendous leverages for the bench...your numbers bear this out. B) You are very young and still in the absolute prime of your CNS and muscle recovery capacity...although literally decades away from your peak strength (if you can stay injury-free) C) You haven't been in the game long enough to really recognize the development patterns that all lifters follow, regardless of actual numbers. As 3speed, George, and others mentioned, all lifters follow a certain pattern, or relative performance curve that is identical in shape: a sideways "s" curve: rapid gains at first where most of the development is CNS-based, medium gains where CNS gains drop below muscle gains, and finally an asymptotically-decreasing gain where CNS and muscle gains really begin to taper off to a steady state value. Like 3speed mentioned, no lifter past the intermediate stage can hold long-term average gains in the 5lb per week, every week range. No one. Not even someone on serious chemical assistance can do this...all chemicals do is shift the gains curve upwards but they do not appreciably alter the shape of it. Now intermediate and even advanced lifters can gain 5lbs per week for short periods of time during peaking phases, but that won't last long before over training sets in. It sounds as if you are in the high-end of your intermediate phase, before your first real plateau has hit. Congratulate yourself, because you've gotten pretty high before the first real obstacle. Make your self ready for when you hit your first wall.  The temptation is there to look back at your progress to-date on 2/3 of your performance curve and think that this is normal long term for you going forward (and by-extension every one else). It isn't. Even though your curve is shifted upwards (a lot) relative to average lifters, the shape is the same, you will eventually hit the advanced lifter stage and your first real plateau. As a reference, when I first started lifting (age 28), my bench progress was: 150lbs to 350lbs : 1 year, avg lb per year: 200 350lbs to 400lbs: 3 years, avg lb per year: 16.6 400lbs to 450lbs: 5 years, avg lb per year: 10 450lbs to 490lbs: 5 years, avg lb per year: 8 14 years, 340lbs, approx. 25 lbs per year average. A good rule-of-thumb for when to look for your becoming advanced is when your current year progress drops below your cumulative average progress. For me 440 - 450 was where I saw my first major sticking point. |
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Post by zekester on Jan 21, 2013 19:10:32 GMT -5
After a 20 year absence of lifting weights{never Powerlifted, just lifting}, I started back up at age 46...I had a pathetic 185 bench weighing 300 lbs...The first year I got up to 295...I then started to do research on technique etc...and got to 365 over the next year...I stayed there for quite sometime and eventually got to 400 but now weigh anywhere from 325-340 depending and Im 54 going on 55...I dont eat right or track my protein, just lift. I think now that I'll be moving into the 55-60 age group I'll focus on better food choices and protein intake and try to replace and/or lose some fat, which is mostly belly fat...Anyhow, I went from 185 - 405 in about 4 years from age 46-50, I had a goal of benching 400 at age 50, which I did...Now Im hoping to stay in that area 390-400 at age 55, hopefully at around the 308 weight once I reach 55-60...Now working on my squat and deadlift and just trying to maintain my bench as I do so...
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Post by George on Jan 21, 2013 21:58:52 GMT -5
I think I have added over 1,500lbs to my bench. Every time I start and stop I go from 250 to 400 relatively quickly, and I've done this about ten times. Cool thing is I haven't hit a wall yet!
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