Hatfield 12 week cycle

[geo0969]

Has anyone tried this peak cycle ? tried to look for reviews on it but nothing comes up .

[George]

www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drsquat11.htm

If its this one, than it looks pretty solid. The logic of using reps of five is used in many programs (5/3/1...Bill Starr 5 x 5, etc.) and was recently discussed by Ed Coan in his interview with Rippetoe. It then follows a ramp in weight and decline in reps using three rep sets, which is familiar. I'm good with all of this, but am confused on the overload principle. What is that? If my max is 400, then I am obviously not going to crank out 480 using 120% of my max.

[3speed]

The overload is simply unracking the weight and holding it at lockout for 3-5 seconds. The theory is that it conditions the cns for heavier weight.

[lockout]

I tried it years ago. It looks cute on paper, but I'm sure an effective routine can be a lot simpler than that.

The criticism I have with that routine is that your legs and lower back get worked every workout where as your bench only gets worked every other workout. So you end up with not enough work on the bench and possibly too much work on the leggs and lower back.

You might be better off doing a simple 5 x 5 protocol.

Oh, and by the way. My deadlift really took off when I did that workout. But I think thats just because I really wanted it so I tried hard. Often my lower back would be too tired to workout, so I'd just go home, take another day to rest, then go back in the next day and hit it harder again.

But anyways, I think even a regular 5 x 5 routine would work just fine. The key as I have learned is to progress slowly. You're much better off starting with easier workouts and progressing slowly. That way progress is certain and you won't burn yourself out. With slow progress you are much less likely to hit a plateau.

[crazy]

Do you know of any 5x5 programs? Anything with percentages?

[lockout]

There's several common versions out there if you look it up.

I'm not sure if you really need to focus on percentages though as long as you work on progression.

I actually got some ideas off from Brooks Kubik's website. One style he mentioned about is where your last 3 sets are your top work sets. You use a weight in which you can get all reps and never miss a rep. You do that for the first month. The second month you increase weight and decrease to only 2 work sets. And the 3rd month you increase weight again and decrease to only one set. Now that's super slow progression. Slow is sure.

Most of the common routines alternate A and B workouts on a 3 day split, some go as little as 2 days per week.

Personally, I made up my own routine that's a fully body workout done twice per week. I got some ideas from Martin Berkhan's website. I keep it simple. My main work sets are my last 2 sets. Set number 4 is sometimes my heaviest set where as set 5 can be a little lighter depending on how I feel. Once I can do both sets of 5 with the same weight, I move up.

That style is actually seeming to work pretty well for me. Because the progression is more in the middle. You end up progressing at a pace that's just right. It isn't too fast or too slow.

[mikefrost]

Sept 12, 2012 8:58:49 GMT -5 crazy said:

Do you know of any 5x5 programs? Anything with percentages?

I'd listen to Lockout on this one. 5x5 works great. Thats what the greats like Kirk Karwoski and Ed Coan used, along with Starr and soooo many other elite lifters. 5x5 took my bench to 137.5kg for 5x5 then finally stalled, and that was my own fault because I left nothing in the tank. My squat went to 5x5 w/160kg olympic high bar ATG. Nothing overly impressive but it works!

Check out these links for Madcow 5x5 works great btw.

stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/

Also read up on anything marty Gallagher or Bill Starr say about 5x5 they are some of the masters of this method of training.

[mikefrost]

I forgot to add, once I plateaued using 5x5. I did ramped up sets where I work up to a top set of 5. So instead of doing 5x5 with the same weights, I jump every set maybe 20+kg's for example. To this day 5x5 on squats works wonders(progressive weights), but I have found for Bench and Deadlift singles and lower reps work better, but even still I perform a drop set after the top single and that usually consists of 5 reps lol.

[lockout]

Sept 16, 2012 7:14:24 GMT -5 mikefrost said:

I forgot to add, once I plateaued using 5x5. I did ramped up sets where I work up to a top set of 5. So instead of doing 5x5 with the same weights, I jump every set maybe 20+kg's for example. To this day 5x5 on squats works wonders(progressive weights), but I have found for Bench and Deadlift singles and lower reps work better, but even still I perform a drop set after the top single and that usually consists of 5 reps lol.

As Brooks Kubik has discussed in his writings, when you do a 5 x 5 protocol, the 5 x 5 isn't written in stone. That means all 5 sets typically aren't top work sets. Usually the first few sets are progressive warm ups where the last 1-3 sets are work sets depending how you set it up. Sometimes you can even include a few extra real light warm up sets.

In other words, there are different ways to set it up. But the main focus of a 5 x 5 protocol is simple progression. You get a reasonably amount of volume. If you do it right, you'll make sure you never miss a rep in a workout.

And while on that topic, one of the things that really caught my attention that Fred Hatfield once said is that no matter what the program is that you're doing, believing it it 100% is what's going to make the difference as to wether that program will deliver the best results or not. And that's one of the reasons why if you stay consistent with a 5 x 5 protocol and work hard at it for a few years, you'll eventually end up with some impressive numbers. That's because building strength really is that simple. It's all about simple progression. That's the only real thing you have to do in order to get strong.

As for low reps such as singles and triples, I agree with that just as well. But I probably wouldn't want to do that unless I was actually training for a contest. And the simple reason why is because it takes too long to do a workout. Because of that, multiple sets of low reps doesn't make good for a full body workout. I think a full body 5 x 5 protocol done a few times per week is much more practical for someone starting out and trying to gain strength or even someone who is just looking to maintain that strength for the long term.

Come to think of it, a 5 x 5 protocol might even be better for someone new to competition. I can't tell you how many times I have heard or seen people enter a meet and miss the lifts they were trying to get and bombing out of the contest. If I recall correctly Fred Hatfield used to say that it was best practice to plan never to miss a lift in training or in contest.

And as a good example of why I say that, your best set of 5 should be roughly 85% of your 1RM. From that, you could easily hit that as your opener and then use 90-95% or so as your 2nd and 3rd attempts. You most likely wouldn't miss them. That would definitely beat aiming higher and bombing the meet. And then you'd aim for more on your next meet. And you'd get that too.

[mikefrost]

I agree with everything you said, and am well aware of the points you made. I've discussed 5x5's with lots of accomplished coaches.

My second post clarified that progressive is the way to go. I've seen lifters go very far on 5x5's.

5x5 works great, personally I add a one drop set(for squats 10 reps). 5x5 doesnt give me enough work anymore, hence the drop set.

[lockout]

This is really cool. Although I have tried similar styles in the past, this is actually my first time in a long time that I planned for slow and gradual increases over time without forcefully taking my sets to failure.

The results? I am now squatting the same amount that I used to do several years ago when I was in college, and I still feel fresh.

[rickhussey]

I always liked this information on 5x5 variations. jva.ontariostrongman.ca/5X5.htm