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Post by Ryan on Nov 30, 2012 11:23:28 GMT -5
My wife, who happens to be a competitive middle-distance runner herself, is just finishing up getting her BS in nutritional science en route to becoming a licensed nutritionist, so I'm volunteering to be her crash test dummy.
Since I am a true 198, my bodyweight hovers around 195# during meet prep and at both Raw meets I've competed in, I've weighed in at either 195 or 196, so my bw baseline is as true as they get.
She tells me that my desired daily caloric intake needs to be around 3200 calories in order to maintain this bodyweight at the level of training that I do, with a rough caloric proportion breakdown of of 40/30/30 (40 being carbs). The most important component of this (IMO) is that I take in NO LESS than 230g per day of protein which is actually not easy for me.
Although I'm not truly a vegitarian, I am definitely not a big fan of meat and so even though I'll eat the occasional chicken breast or can of tuna, they're both at best a twice-a-week proposition for me, and so I need to get my whole food protein elsewhere.
So, I get most of my protein from beans and low-saturated-fat dairy like cottage cheese and such. I also eat my fair share of peanut butter and yogurt and I like couscous as well as hummus.
I drink a whey protein shake in the morning on the drive to work, supplement BCAA's prior to training at the gym, take a recovery shake after the gym with a teaspoon of creatine mixed in, and then have another Whey protein shake prior to bed.
I think it's possible that my total caloric intake might be a smidge high because I've put on about 2lbs in the 10 days since I've started following this program of hers, but because its my offseason and because I've learned that I've basically been protein-deficient my entire adult life (so protein intake is more important to me right now than anything), I need to focus on getting my 230+g of protein a day as main priority and then worry about total calories second. Plus, if I maintain a consistent diet for a couple of weeks my weight will level out and if it's higher at that point than the 195 I am used to weighing, I simply scale back the total caloric intake and go from there.
My wife says that it takes roughly 3500 calories in excess of your usage needs to put on 1lb of weight, so I'm thinking that once my current weight levels out, if it doesn't come back to normal on its own, I'll scale back to about 2800 calories per day and go from there.
The only problem with this nutrition regimen for me is the cost. The supplementation is expensive as Hades (I used to only supplement my recovery shake and creatine; I've since added two protein shakes a day to that!) and th constantly going to the store to replenish whole foods that are high in protein is costly as well.
At any rate, we'll see how this all plays out. I'll report back periodically.
-Ryan
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 12:00:43 GMT -5
You don't need supplements. Those are for when your short on time.
I suggest finding food you enjoy eating. Seasoning can help too.
With my lifting and work. I eat 7 to 8 times a day. I counting snacking as a meal. The food can be random at times as long as its not too unhealthy.
Vegetables work better then supplements because they are incomplete protein, they can be store and used through out the day when you complete them. 48 hours after you lift is the healing process.
The 40/30/30 sounds kinda weird. That's a lot fat.
We do require fat but too much will slow the body down.
60/30/10 is normal people diet
50/40/10 is athletes
40/50/10 is weight loss or fat burners
If your just starting out your new diet, don't count calories just eat enough. Spread your meals. If your eating to the point where you feel sick or tire then you ate too much. Eat according to what you do day by day. If your planning on doing nothing on Sunday then don't eat the same stuff that you usually would on a lifting day.
Once again don't buy supplements. Especially if your on a budget.
Enjoy eating + Enjoy lifting = awesome results
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Post by Ryan on Nov 30, 2012 12:38:08 GMT -5
You don't need supplements. Those are for when your short on time. I suggest finding food you enjoy eating. Seasoning can help too. With my lifting and work. I eat 7 to 8 times a day. I counting snacking as a meal. The food can be random at times as long as its not too unhealthy. Vegetables work better then supplements because they are incomplete protein, they can be store and used through out the day when you complete them. 48 hours after you lift is the healing process. The 40/30/30 sounds kinda weird. That's a lot fat. We do require fat but too much will slow the body down. 60/30/10 is normal people diet 50/40/10 is athletes 40/50/10 is weight loss or fat burners If your just starting out your new diet, don't count calories just eat enough. Spread your meals. If your eating to the point where you feel sick or tire then you ate too much. Eat according to what you do day by day. If your planning on doing nothing on Sunday then don't eat the same stuff that you usually would on a lifting day. Once again don't buy supplements. Especially if your on a budget. Enjoy eating + Enjoy lifting = awesome results I appreciate that you have a different take on this than I do, but unless you have specific evidence that comes from findings within the last 5 years to back up your claims, I'm going to continue taking my nutritional advice from someone who likely knows more about this stuff than you and I put together. First, whole foods can actually be more costly than supplements, especially if you're trying to maintain or gain weight to make weight or gain strength. I am living proof of this (and my wallet can vouch!!). Second, the avg person does not know how to "Eat by feel" which is what you suggest above. This sort of mindset is precisely why people are obese all over the place, and why the avg person's diet is made up of mostly poor-quality carbs and fat. Leaving nutrition to "what seems best within reason" is fools gold, and is precisely why so many people are such a physical mess! If 40/30/30 sounds like a lot of fat to you, I suggest looking deeper into the concepts of nutrition for strength training. I'm not pulling these numbers from my rear-end, nor are they coming from other forums I perused or from Googling. My main source of info is someone who's about finished training in the discipline of nutrtion for sports science, so I'll defer to her. Also, I'm not trying to be confrontational, but when you come back to me with definitive statements that are either based on your own opinion or on outdated/non-strength sport criteria, I think you need to deliver your message in a softer manner or revisit where you're getting this info from. Just saying, although I do thank you for reading and responding because I wasn't sure how many people even come to this thread on the forum! LOL -Ryan |
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Post by osu122975 on Nov 30, 2012 13:02:03 GMT -5
40-30-30 has been recommended for a long time - its not a new concept. The key is clean food.
Lean protein - chicken/turkey breast, lean steak, egg whites, white fish, tuna
Complex carbs - brown rice, oats, malto meal, sweet potato
Fats - natural peanut butter, olive oil, nuts (not peanuts)
These are some of them - but they work for you instead of against you.
I've done 6-7 meals/day. I've done 4-5 meals/day. 3-4 and so on.
If you're trying to lose weight, higher meal frequency generally produces a "faster metabolism" but the possiblity of increased insulin - which is why it is VITAL to eat complex carbs when doing high frequency eating.
If you're maintaining, 4-5 works well.
In gaining, I've found 3-4 large calorie meals works well.
It really depends on how fast or slow you're looking to add or drop weight.
Timing is also key. If it's a training day, all bets are off. If it's a non training day, drop the carbs low or all together other than veggies after being awake for 6-7 hrs.
Small changes are also important to see how it will affect you. Consistency is a must.
I find it to be a second job to be honest and a real pain in the butt.
I believe in moderation in gaining or losing weight unless drastic measures need to be taken. That is when I would seek the help of someone who is experienced or a professional.
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Post by Ryan on Nov 30, 2012 13:05:56 GMT -5
40-30-30 has been recommended for a long time - its not a new concept. The key is clean food. Lean protein - chicken/turkey breast, lean steak, egg whites, white fish, tuna Complex carbs - brown rice, oats, malto meal, sweet potato Fats - natural peanut butter, olive oil, nuts (not peanuts) These are some of them - but they work for you instead of against you. I've done 6-7 meals/day. I've done 4-5 meals/day. 3-4 and so on. If you're trying to lose weight, higher meal frequency generally produces a "faster metabolism" but the possiblity of increased insulin - which is why it is VITAL to eat complex carbs when doing high frequency eating. If you're maintaining, 4-5 works well. In gaining, I've found 3-4 large calorie meals works well. It really depends on how fast or slow you're looking to add or drop weight. Timing is also key. If it's a training day, all bets are off. If it's a non training day, drop the carbs low or all together other than veggies after being awake for 6-7 hrs. Small changes are also important to see how it will affect you. Consistency is a must. I find it to be a second job to be honest and a real pain in the butt. I believe in moderation in gaining or losing weight unless drastic measures need to be taken. That is when I would seek the help of someone who is experienced or a professional. I'm on board with you totally, except that I do think (in my biased opinion...lol) that really anyone can benefit from the help of a professional because fact is, they know more than we do and not just make "bad" into "good", they can also help turn "good" into "excellent". Why else would pro athletes have their own trainers and nutritionists, right? Obviously they can afford them, but if they didn't need them, they would spend the money on another Bentley or strippers right? lol |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 16:49:36 GMT -5
"enjoy eating + enjoy lifting = awesome results"
If I go on the 40/30/30 I would be a chubby little guy. Hehe
As I suggest it before, just eat enough, it's good for your wallet and taste bud.
My advice from the previous post was just for you and not the average person because you are married to a nutritionist.
It's just common sense that 40/30/30 is bad for you. If you need at least 230g protien then you also need at least 100g of fat, that's about 4 big Mac.
Too much fat will slow your body down. Then you won't be able to use all the carbs. They pile up and they become bodyfat.
It's my opinion only, I have no data and research.
I'm past the point of watching my weight. I just watch my bodyfat I just hover at 21%.
I gonna compete in the 165 but in my off season my weight is 170 to 180.
I try to be balance so all my three of my main lifts are close on max.
Bench +430
Squat +430
Deadlift +445
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Post by Ryan on Nov 30, 2012 17:08:37 GMT -5
"enjoy eating + enjoy lifting = awesome results" If I go on the 40/30/30 I would be a chubby little guy. Hehe As I suggest it before, just eat enough, it's good for your wallet and taste bud. My advice from the previous post was just for you and not the average person because you are married to a nutritionist. It's just common sense that 40/30/30 is bad for you. If you need at least 230g protien then you also need at least 100g of fat, that's about 4 big Mac. Too much fat will slow your body down. Then you won't be able to use all the carbs. They pile up and they become bodyfat. It's my opinion only, I have no data and research. I'm past the point of watching my weight. I just watch my bodyfat I just hover at 21%. I gonna compete in the 165 but in my off season my weight is 170 to 180. I try to be balance so all my three of my main lifts are close on max. Bench +430 Squat +430 Deadlift +445 I understand what you're saying but (no disrespect intended) your entire last post makes even less sense than the one prior to it, from a powerlifting perspective or a nutrional standpoint. 100g of fat doesn't equal even a single Big Mac, if you are sure to take in unsaturated fats and keep your saturated fat to less than 10% of your intake. I think you're a good guy with good intentions and I would probably like you if we met in person, but each post you've made in this thread has made less sense than the one before it, so you might want to brush up on your knowledge before telling people what's right and what's not. You can't make declarative statements you did above and then admit that you can't back them up empirically and then finish with even more opinion that's based on who-knows-what knowledge or experience. I don't know. Maybe I'm the one taking the crazy pills. Lol Please someone else enlighten me!!! |
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Post by osu122975 on Dec 3, 2012 12:02:06 GMT -5
Most people take too much protein. 1g per lb of bodyweight is far too much. From a Personal Trainer study book - the suggestion is made to take .8g per kg of bodyweight to maintain and 1.2-1.8g per kg of bodyweight to SAFELY increase muscle mass depending on your training and goals. The excess protein apparently can cause liver and kidney stress, which is why you see a lot of bodybuilders taking some sort of digestive enzyme and liver/kidney supplement.
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Post by Ryan on Dec 3, 2012 15:09:03 GMT -5
Most people take too much protein. 1g per lb of bodyweight is far too much. From a Personal Trainer study book - the suggestion is made to take .8g per kg of bodyweight to maintain and 1.2-1.8g per kg of bodyweight to SAFELY increase muscle mass depending on your training and goals. The excess protein apparently can cause liver and kidney stress, which is why you see a lot of bodybuilders taking some sort of digestive enzyme and liver/kidney supplement. Respectfully, this is not entirely true, at least not anymore. Not saying that what you're citing is total BS, but I am saying that this type of info might come from older data/incomplete studies as well as conjecture or "best guesses". Also, I wouldn't personally recommend taking nutritional advice from a PT study guide/manual any more than I'd trust a cab driver to fly an airplane. Trainers can be good at what they do (though some are rotten like any profession) but they're no better equipped to parse out nutritional info and advice than you or I. If this is hard to believe, consider that even doctors (yes, PhD's) know literally nothing about nutrition themselves beyond what any ordinary person could learn online. It's actually crazy but it's not part of what they're taught in medical school, which is why all major hospitals have staff dieticians and certified nutritionists. My wife tells me that new nutrition standards actually call for a complete "throwing away" of the concept of "grams per lb per bw" when considering protein intake at all. She began explaining to me the new method for determining it, but I just zoned out. I can get her to type it out so I can post it here if that would be helpful, but all the numbers and theory were giving me a headache. LOL Also, there is absolutely no empirical evidence anywhere (that I'm aware of) which shows clearly that excess protein intake does anything more than cause your kidneys and liver to work proportionately harder, and this is supposed to be almost entirely offset by flushing with water. I'm not saying that it's "myth" or "old wives tale" that too much protein = liver/kidney problems, I'm just saying that there's no clear-cut study-base evidence that definitively says one way or the other whether excess protein actually causes organ damage or even distress. Please don't kill the messenger; just repeating what I'm told because there seems to be a LOT of confusion around nutrition. At any rate, have a look at the following article. It touches on some of the older concepts of protein intake (related to so-many-g-per-lb-bw, for instance) and those sorts of things, but what it mainly keys on are that requirements are different for different people and that protein intake (like ALL calorie sources) should be proportionate to your overal caloric intake. I just skimmed the article itself so forgive me if it goes off in other directions too, but a chunk of it seems to relate pretty closely to what we're talking about here. So, in my case, I take in 30% of 3200cal per day in protein in order to maintain a bw near but not over 198, at my level of daily activity. This might be way high for you, or way low for the next guy, but it's activity based versus the old model of static poundage base, so it's right for my personal needs: www.livestrong.com/article/556322-how-much-protein-is-right-for-you/ |
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Post by osu122975 on Dec 3, 2012 23:06:16 GMT -5
hahaha! everybody has a study! lol...
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Post by bighawgfsu on Dec 1, 2013 4:31:29 GMT -5
Breach...and breach again...all must bleed...take in as much food as necessary...the amounts are different for each and everyone of us..
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Post by bighawgfsu on Dec 13, 2013 14:46:13 GMT -5
The above quote about ...."That seems like too much fat" is the old school way of thinking. Society has always told us fats are bad and such. Bottom line, your body needs fats to remain healthy and keep testosterone levels normal...especially in men. Healthy fats provide many...many positive benefits for the body as well as the heart.
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Post by Ryan on Dec 15, 2013 21:18:55 GMT -5
The above quote about ...."That seems like too much fat" is the old school way of thinking. Society has always told us fats are bad and such. Bottom line, your body needs fats to remain healthy and keep testosterone levels normal...especially in men. Healthy fats provide many...many positive benefits for the body as well as the heart. Very much correct. In fact, sugar is FAR worse than fat in almost every regard. Worth noting also that salt is not as terrible as once thought at least in moderation, and caffeine does more good than bad. |
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Post by bighawgfsu on Feb 18, 2014 14:31:04 GMT -5
Eat more raw and natural dry oatmeal....excellent for energy and cleans your pipes too...lol
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Post by santomaxton on May 21, 2016 5:48:24 GMT -5
"40-30-30 has been recommended for a long time - its not a new concept. The key is clean food." Thank you ..i gonna take it as my main formula
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