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Post by rockman181 on Nov 17, 2006 19:10:55 GMT -5
I'm gonna try that form on deadlifts. I'm still kinda muscling it up with form that get's sloppy as the weight gets heavier.
Nice plan, biglifter, and great lifting.
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Post by dopar66 on Nov 20, 2006 10:52:15 GMT -5
Quads will get some soreness if you deadlift conventional. Expect that especially when you do both, high volume, same week!
At this moment, a word from my sponsor, Icy Hot. :')
God Bless.
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Post by 3speed on Nov 22, 2006 13:39:27 GMT -5
Nice plan of attack there BL.
The soreness is common/expected with the higher rep workouts. Aside from meet day, the only workouts I get sore from are high reps (very rarely done) and trying to peak squat and deads at the same time with heavy singles.
Soreness is not a problem, if you can handle it, as long as your diet is good and you are getting plenty of rest. There have been several studies published that show no detrimental effects from training while sore. This, of course, assumes normal muscle soreness and not anything related to injury.
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Post by biglifter on Nov 23, 2006 1:34:04 GMT -5
Thanks 3speed. As you said, once I get down to about 6 reps the soreness is greatly reduced. This is 100% due to muscle soreness and no injury. I'd like to think the weeks of being sore pay off at the end of the cycle by setting up a good base of strength and a little size.
On another note, what are some thoughts on doing both squats and deadlifts in the same week? I won't make any changes until the cycle is complete, but was thinking for the future about hitting the core lifts every other week. Something like:
week 1 squats / straight-leg DL's, rows, weighted pull-ups, etc.. week 2 Leg extension/curl/GHR, etc... / deads week 3 Similar to week 1 week 4 Similar to week 2
I've been hesitant to change since progress is still being made hitting them both in the same week. However, maybe even greater gains can come by just working the assisting muscle groups every other week (maybe more rested going into the squats/deadlifts???)
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Post by dopar66 on Nov 24, 2006 11:24:05 GMT -5
I do squats and heavy deads in the same week every other week, since I only dead heavy once every two weeks. It works "for me". That being said, if your current plan is bringing the results you like, stick with it long enough to see if you meet your goals. If you do, you have a record to go back to for next round. If not, you have a record to tweak. One common mistake is to abandon or heavily modify a workout because a person has a bad day in the gym. I lift with one dude who is NOTORIOUS for changing workouts and supplements about every two weeks. :')
Cliff notes: squats and deads in the same week, check, just not every week. Holding on to current workout for this cycle, check. Make major changes: no check until the cycle is over.
God BLess.
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Post by 3speed on Nov 24, 2006 13:32:00 GMT -5
BL, I hate to sound like a broken record (remember those?) but I have to repeat what I have typed here many times. You have to experiment and find what works for you. I am a firm believer that it takes 8-10 weeks of a routine to see if it actually works for you - don't keep jumping around from routine to routine just because it works for someone else(wise words from DOPAR). When you find something that works, ride that horse as far as it will go.
Now that I said that........I made very good progress working squat and deads every week. I squatted on Monday, benched on Wednesday, did deads on Thursday and some light bench on Saturday. However, I am now limited to one w/o a week on Sunday. This is because of my schedule. I currently bench and squat 2 weeks in a row and then I bench and dead on the 3rd week.
No matter what routine you work, remember the 80/20 rule. It is a multi-purpose rule that applies to most aspects of life. In this case, 20% of your progress is made in the gym and 80% of your progress depends on your diet and the amount of rest you get.
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Post by biglifter on Nov 24, 2006 23:23:56 GMT -5
Much thanks for the wisdom on staying the course. Everything is going great on the current routine now and if it ain't broke...... I was more just trying to get an idea of what others are doing volume-wise on the core lifts, rather than thinking seriously about any changes. Definately staying the course with some great early results. If everything goes according to plan, I'll publish it and live off the royalties . Also, thanks for the reminders on recovery. That one can never be repeated enough!
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Post by 3speed on Nov 25, 2006 8:11:27 GMT -5
Good work BL. Glad to hear you are healing up.
From what I read in their logs here, most of us keep our work reps in the 3-5 range with occasional days higher or lower. Your plan is solid. It is very similar to the peaking routine used by the incomparable Ed Coan. You just have a few additional weeks plugged into it.
It sounds strange, but here is something that might help with the soreness. It works for me when I get close to comp time. After you finish your leg w/o, do a set of 20 reps with a very, very light weight. I squat 550ish and I do this with 185 lbs. It flushes blood through the muscles and helps to clean out anerobic byproducts and toxins.
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Post by chancey on Nov 25, 2006 14:14:14 GMT -5
Looking good BL. Ha Ha! 3speed laying the gospel - I'm one of those many times he refers to. I would cut off an appendage to have his knowledge. Not big on pain, maybe a small toe.
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Post by biglifter on Nov 26, 2006 12:54:09 GMT -5
Thanks all! Yes, a lot of this was based off Coan's training with a little bit of variation from other sources and even some of Biglifter's home recipe on a few parts. In all honesty, I didn't blindly take his routine because he is arguably the best powerlifter ever, but because it made the most sense to me and fit perfect with the schedule I like. The deload and partials are all you guys! What I'm really starting to like is the 2 weeks at the same rep/set volume. So far, on the 2nd weeks, everything has felt lighter than the previous, and I'm fairly sure that's what it's all about. I'll give the light set a shot at the end of squats. Anything that can speed recovery time would be a huge win right now. Thanks again and I'll be screaming at ya on your lifts from NY
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Post by dopar66 on Nov 27, 2006 9:03:31 GMT -5
BL, what I REALLY like is the red print: ZERO misses! Okay, okay, so it's still early in the cycle, so what. That is a bunch of reppin' with no fatigue misses. Good stuff!
You have a great approach: research, research, research; ask questions; modify to personal needs. That is a really intelligent approach, leading to potentially a long and illustrious career.
God Bless.
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Post by biglifter on Nov 27, 2006 11:47:22 GMT -5
Thanks Doug. Looking forward to starting another no miss week. I'll leave reps to failure for the bodybuilders out there and am focusing on making every rep in the plan, every single time. If that happens then the new PR's must happen, right? . I can't thank all of you enough for the support and feedback. These are aggressive goals, adding 200 lbs to the overall total in 20 weeks. If I have any misses, feel free to yell at me like a good training partner would .
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Post by chancey on Nov 28, 2006 18:07:42 GMT -5
Right on track BL. Good job of hanging tough.
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Post by dopar66 on Nov 29, 2006 12:10:53 GMT -5
Dang. 173. Now I have a rising SUPERSTAR in the same weight class. Poop.
:') :') :')
Squatting like that doesn't build character, but it tends to eliminate lifters that don't have any. Keep on grunting through them, cuz your trend lately is for week 2 to go better. MAKE SURE next week the form is there, even at the expense of a last rep. (Only my .02, don't change your plan on account of me!) You want all your reps to look like competition reps.
The bench: looking good!
God Bless.
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Post by biglifter on Nov 30, 2006 0:02:33 GMT -5
Don't worry, I'll bring that weight back down (I hope). I've got room to lower BF% and get back into 165 land. I'm perpetually eating to support recovery and reaping some of the strength increase that undoubtedly follows bodyweight increase. I'd like to think the increase is mostly from more lean muscle with just a little fat added. No threat to the 181's (yet ;D)
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Post by dopar66 on Nov 30, 2006 8:34:34 GMT -5
Don't worry about me! I only lift against myself. I've gone on record as saying if someone outlifts me, they're stronger, and I respect them for that; and, I'll be disappointed if any of my "records" stand the test of time. I'm just awaiting the 181 pound superstar to come in and obliterate any standard I may have set, if you're the guy, I hope I get to be there and watch it happen!
God Bless!
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Post by 3speed on Dec 2, 2006 17:55:20 GMT -5
Great work BL. 8 reps on deads will fatigue anybody. You are laying the groundwork for some nice gains later.
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Post by dopar66 on Dec 4, 2006 9:31:00 GMT -5
Again, I echo 3Speed's sentiments.
Zero misses. NICE WORK!
God Bless.
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Post by biglifter on Dec 4, 2006 11:10:18 GMT -5
Thanks again to you both. Things are shaping up nicely. I'll make y'all proud in VT next year
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Post by 3speed on Dec 8, 2006 16:37:28 GMT -5
Well, I'm not competing so I guess I can comment.
I sound like a broken record but Nice work. Sounds like you might be getting the hang of the deads. Keep your form, follow your program and the strength will come.
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Post by Beau Clark on Dec 9, 2006 0:59:50 GMT -5
Hey bro great work you are doing here i dont have the perfect plan to give you all i have is , just keep it simple do what works for you and give one training period time to see if it works. Take things and info from everyone and put them in your training to work for you . Its not going to come overnight it takes time and sweet it will come i promiss.
Train hard live hard be true scorpion
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Post by biglifter on Dec 9, 2006 13:29:56 GMT -5
Thanks Scorpion/3speed. Recovery is fantastic now that we're in the 5rep zone. I am starting to really notice some improvements in sumo deadlifts by doing them every other single. These have always been a less than strong point (I hate to use the word weakness Scorpion, Nice work on your training log there. That is some brutal volume. Says a lot that you do that kind of training. Wow!
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Post by dopar66 on Dec 11, 2006 15:47:49 GMT -5
Man I am GLAD I came back to the forum today and read the end of last week's workouts. GOOD STUFF! "Zero Misses"!!!
Keep up that awesome killer workout! Well, once that deload week is over with..... :')
God Bless!!
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Post by dopar66 on Dec 13, 2006 11:01:33 GMT -5
I just picked up on your "sleep" portion of the message. I am WITH you on that one! It's amazing what sleep does for you, and equally amazing what the lack of sleep does against you! Even during your deloading week.
Keep up the awesome work, and I can't wait to read about the 1300+ total!
God Bless.
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Post by biglifter on Dec 13, 2006 16:42:44 GMT -5
And I can't wait to write about the 1300+ . Not as goals but as an achievement. Sleep might get a little harder to come by in another month or so. #2 child is due and back to the "C shift" very soon. I'll enjoy the restful nights while I can.
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