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Post by chancey on Jul 24, 2007 10:53:35 GMT -5
That's very 3speedish. Outstanding work. Especially your ability to hammer your legs again in such a short period of time. Must be that Smolov conditioning!
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Post by George on Jul 25, 2007 13:19:46 GMT -5
Lol...Smolov makes anything feel like undertraining. I was half tempted to take six again...I finally cinvinced myself to do the right thing and try and peak at the meet.
I am excited about Nationals, but even more excited at coming back when it's over and setting out a yearly plan instead of meet after meet "damage control". Nationals will be my fifth meet in a year and a half, 3 geared and 2 raw. I'm going to hang my gear in the closet, drop to 220, and commit to a 650-450-600 in 220 for my next raw meet in a years time...Hopefully we will have ours again in April or May of next year. (I'm writing this becuase I'll be in Myrtle for a week after Nationals and probably won't be posting until I get back...ready to go.)
I'll be searching for you guys at Nationals, hope everything is going good and everyone is ready to rock.
Good luck!
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Post by dopar66 on Jul 26, 2007 8:02:48 GMT -5
Roger on the damage control! I'm kinda looking forward to 6-8 months of TRAINING, not MEET PREP.
Hope you have a blast in Myrtle Beach!
Safe travel and God Bless!
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Post by George on Aug 7, 2007 21:27:23 GMT -5
Back from vacation...
Nationals went well. I went 565-360-510 (squat and bench were 100% Raw records). Not close to what I wanted to hit but a 45lb total increase over my raw meet a month ago. For the amount of time I had to adjust to raw I am pleased to be able to attain records and wins but realize where I truly compare and know the road ahead of me. I am going to take at least ten months off to work on my raw as well as building size (things i have neglected for over a year).
Goals... Hopefully by new years 2008 I am able to hit a 650 squat, considering I can handle 615 now when not cutting weight at a close but questionable depth. This also brings into play my weight, which i am going to slowly taper down to around 230-235...I reconsidered the 220 drop and decided its not worth the year of catching up. I would also like to be able to bench 450, since my touch and go is still around 410 by hammering the puase, my shoulder strength and increased back size and strength. Back strength and shoulder strength will be my priorities over the next year so i can raise my struggling deadlift to a more respectable number, hopefully hitting 575-600 by '08, as well as shaking the dust off my abs. My follwing workouts should reflect these goals and hopefully I will be able to pull things together.
Mon - August 06 - 2007 Bench
Barbell Bench (390 Buckeye Routine) 135 for 2 x 10 (warmup) 250 x 8(slow reps) 290 x 6 315 x 4 (puase each rep) 350 x 3 (puase each rep) 360 x 2(puase each rep) 370 x 1 (puased...went smooth) 315 x 8 (fast reps)
I am not going to continue the exaggerated puase, just until i feel I have mastered my raw form better. I realize i still need to keep explosiveness in mind.
Wasn't sure where I was since these haven't been done forever Incline Flies (strict/wide) 25's for 2 x 10 35's x 10 45's for 4 x 10
Arnold Shoulder Press 45's x 10 55's x 10 65's for 3 x 10
Dumbbell Shoulder Flies 25's for 6 x 10 (three directions- out thumb up. thumb down and front palm down)
__________________________________________________________________________ Tue - August 07 - 2007 Squat
Barbell Squat 150 x 5 260 x 5 400 for 5 x 5 470 x 3 500 x 2...missed third. (wanted to do 5x5 medium and a heavy 3x3)
Front Squat 225 x 10 225 x 10 235 x 10 245 x 10 (all of these felt slow but good)
Walking lounges 70's for 4 x 12
Bicep work.
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Post by 3speed on Aug 7, 2007 21:38:34 GMT -5
Strong work George. Looking forward to following your progress.
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Post by chancey on Aug 8, 2007 7:58:39 GMT -5
Sounds like a good idea. Reasonable goals. You will definately close the gap on your pause and TNG bench. Good work for back to back meets and getting that 45 pound jump. I as well look forward to following your progress.
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Post by George on Aug 8, 2007 8:24:28 GMT -5
Nice thing about those last posts is now I have a couple of people I can let down...lol. Seriously though, I'll be doing the same with you guys. I might not get to post as much on other journals becuase I usually have to do this at work (like now), but I read everything as far as journal's and some of the open topics at home. (For some reason I cannot sign on at home but can browse...anyone have any ideas on what I need to download?)
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Post by George on Aug 8, 2007 8:39:12 GMT -5
I just thought I would add...for amusement...that I weighed 241 at Nationals and after my easy, lazy gluttoness vacation I am now, and this is morning weight, 275...lol. (My exwife or doctor doesn't think its funny). My gun belt is tight...had to take half my gear off becuase it was jamming my gut (asp baton, smaller flashlight).
(My max weight rarely goes above 260, but I have broke new ground thanks to; el Burro Loco, Zaxby's, Firehouse Subs, Four Brothers Burgers, the Lighthouse, Joe's Crab Shack...all in Myrtle beach. The lighthouse is an ecellent bar, btw.)
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Post by lysimacus on Aug 8, 2007 8:50:08 GMT -5
Nice front squats. They will help atrophy that eating muscle . I'm planning a trip to SC at the end of the month that coincides with my off week to visit my mother-in-law. I will have to face those same issues of good food in large quantities. Vacations can be an interesting challenge.
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Post by George on Aug 8, 2007 9:12:18 GMT -5
lol. What can I say...I'm a sucker for variety. I live in a small town and aside from a couple local fast food places theres not many options. I actually tried to eat somewhere different twice a day...for about three days before i realized I'd be eating mac and cheese the rest of the week if I didn't slow down. The food is the reason many people didn't even get an official key chain and were upset at only getting a few broken shells when i got back.
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Post by 3speed on Aug 8, 2007 9:17:53 GMT -5
(For some reason I cannot sign on at home but can browse...anyone have any ideas on what I need to download?) D you have cookies blocked on your computer at home? They have to be enabled to log on.
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Post by toolpod on Aug 8, 2007 10:00:29 GMT -5
George, I hear ya about the food...I could eat all day long...Joe's Crab Shack rocks! There's one not to far from Pgh...out by the Airport somewhere....probably 45+ minutes for you.
The bench looks good. I'd second your thoughts about keeping explosiveness in mind when you do the pauses. My experience has been that when I focus on pauses my CNS does what I ask of it...it slows down. Generally, throwing in the occasional odd speed day has been enough to keep my speed on though.
One thing I have been trying lately is doing the Dennis Cieri-style negatives, 50%1rm-ish with 6-8 second controlled descents, brief pause, and then an explosive press, 3 sets of 6-8. I've been doing them on my lighter chest day. Seems to be working to keep the speed love on.
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Post by George on Aug 8, 2007 13:52:13 GMT -5
Toolpod: I'll have to look into that simply becuase it's different, but the sources couldn't be better either.
3speed: I'll check on that tonight. My brother went and threw every sort of security measure on (pop up blocker, etc.) and I was running out of ideas...but that makes a lot of sense and I'll give it a shot.
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Post by dopar66 on Aug 9, 2007 7:37:18 GMT -5
275? WOO HOO! That's how to celebrate a FINE job at the nats! But now I'm gonna curse. Yall stick your fingers in your ears real quick......
Cardio.
Okay, you can take your fingers out your ears now. :')
Echo 3Speed on the pauses. I pause dang near everything, but the ascent is always with "explode" in mind. If you think "controlled descent, motionless bar, explode" you can just about perfectly time the "press" command in training. Practicing on the lighter reps (ie, the Cieri negatives) you develop that muscle memory over reps with the explosion. Of course, I say all this, but you saw my bench..... well, at least I "sound" like I know what I'm talking about..... :')
Glad you had a great vacation.
God Bless!
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Post by George on Aug 9, 2007 12:31:33 GMT -5
Thu - August 09 - 2007 Bench
Cambored Bar Bench 135 x 10 185 x 10 225 x 10 235 x 10 235 x 10 240 x 10
(Still really sore after Monday so I took it easy on these)
Close Grip Bench Press (Middle of thumb on smooth) 225 x 10 275 x 10 300 x 10 300 x 10 300 x 8 (burned out...would have been it anyways with ten)
Decline Dumbbell Extensions 45's x 8 55's x 8 55's x 8 55's x 8
We don't have 60 or 65's for some reason, so i need to do more reps or chance the 70's for 8
Dopar: I think I might start implementing those on my Thursdays. I want to hit a chest movement anyways before tri's (like the cambored above), and it should fit in.
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Post by dopar66 on Aug 9, 2007 12:56:12 GMT -5
SWEET CGBP!
I left the Cieri type benches off my workout a coupla years ago to make room for other movements. Just this week started throwing them back in. When I was coaching in HS I'd use a similar movement once in a while to humiliate, dominate, and destroy my big guys. I'd make 'em do 8s on the descent and 8s on the ascent, for 8 reps/set. Honest truth, I had a 300 pound bencher sweating bullets with 135 pounds. I believe in 'em, I had just forgotten about 'em.
Once you're NOT really sore from your Monday benching, I'd recommend going after the 70s. Train 'em with 4 reps, then 5 reps, then 8 reps, next thing you know you'll be up to 10 with 70s.
God Bless!
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Post by George on Aug 9, 2007 13:39:40 GMT -5
They are something I have not yet tried, but then again I never puase benched either until a month ago...lol. It might conflict what some big names advocate but I want to continue with the mass building schemes, I'm hoping the effect of this exercise will still carryover if done say before a high rep chest session. When looking at Louie's articles I best remember reading that your body has a hard time adapting to various methods in one session and that mixing loses the "training effect". For some reason I don't agree with this, which is funny...it looks like I want to dispute NASA about a star's name when I go against Westside...but then again I'm the one who convinced myself size through power moves is the answer and gave up on the dynamic effort ideas and continous maxing with rotating exercises. My strength climbed higher and for some reason, the heavy grinding under both low rep (5 x 5) and high rep sets (5 x 10) and maxing with the same exercise all together produced the same results...with good bar speed. This is up to any of you who witnessed my squats and benches at Nationals as to whether or not the bar speed looked good...it felt good though. (I know the deadlift speed looked like a grandmother lifting a sofa to get the sweeper in).
Basically, do you think that I can mix in this type of exercise with the high reps or would I be wasting my energy?
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Post by lysimacus on Aug 9, 2007 15:37:31 GMT -5
There are some coaches who advocate speed on all reps as the only way to build speed. They also claim that a lot of slow tempo training will hinder overall speed. The term speed is used in the context of as fast as possible. Obviously the nearer to one's 1RM, the slower the bar will ascend. If the bar is going up as fast as one can make it go, then that is the proper speed for that weight for that person. I'll look for the article's and post their links if I can find them.Two names that come to mind are Chad Waterbury and Dan John but don't hold me to it. I'm back Best I could do in a few minutes: www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1616759&cr=
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Post by George on Aug 9, 2007 21:48:35 GMT -5
lysimacus: I love those kind of articles...brings me back to the blurry college days when I concentrated on things...lol. That was an excellent article but heres a question I would like to ask the author. I understand that a submaximal weight moved fast will recruit more fiber than a maximal weight moved slow. What I have yet to see, or explained more, is the correlation of a speed set compared to a relatively fast pumping motion if performing a quick, but not as fast, set of ten. In other words, say using 50% of your max on a bench lifted as fast as possible recruits the most motor units and fiber, say 100% of your available motor units and muscle fiber (I know its a stretch but I'm getting somewhere), does this mean that the units are all stimulated with the same intenisty since so many fibers are being brought into play. In other words, if you have a huge brick wall in asia (hey...I think they do somewhere) and several hundred thousand children and old people slam into it with a running head start...is this more effective than having a hundred thousand strong brutes ram it? I realize that more might seem better, but is the lesser stimulation of a decellerated load cuasing more strength development becuase the fibers are not all in, making it easier for one another? I might be way off, but to me if thirty guys carry a casket they might be able to do it with their pinky. Four guys would have a much harder time. If these two groups worked as professional casket carriers (my examples do more harm than good I think), I'm betting the group of four would be much stronger and bigger having to adapt. (Considering the body as a whole is a muscle as described in the article.) A light load moved fast stimulates more motor recruitment...I'm good with that and understand. But in terms of adaptation, could recuiting more fibers really only take them longer to adapt becuase so many have a hand, therefore minimalizing hypertrophy? My head is starting to hurt and I'm sure there is an easy answer. I don't know how I got crossed thinking like this when I know it works, I think it works and theres actual proof...lol.
Chancey: I agree that puasing every rep can;t be good, especially with that buckeye. I am doing it now for a peace of mind, to help better learn to keep the tension and pop after a puase. I may still do it with the one sets for a while, but also may abondon it until within three months or so of meet range, partially for some of the reason mentioned above.
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Post by George on Aug 9, 2007 23:35:13 GMT -5
Above was more an argument towards the 50% speed lifts as well as the lighter faster producing more hypertrophy, to provide clarity and save some posts. (I'm not arguing they don't work, just looking for an answer to the above that I can't give myself) I went through and reread the westside articles on speed and understand the rate of force development as a whole with regard to speed, but still wonder since absolute strength raises speed and speed raises absolute strength, why moderate loads moved semi fast (due to the heavyness and more stress forcing more adaptation on a 70% recruitment) aren't more beneficial than either extreme (light weight fast using more fiber making less adaptation necessary with 100% recruitment) and (heavy weight moved slow forcing more adaptation on the say 40% that are recruited) in terms of developing speed strength and strength in general. (For that matter hypertrophy gains as well.)
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Post by dopar66 on Aug 10, 2007 8:47:01 GMT -5
Dang. Now MY head is starting to hurt!
Okay, nutshell time, break out your Cliff Notes pad.
Heavy reps (1 to 5 rep range, ME) one pause, explode: the "intent" of fast muscle contraction is the key factor (3 universities conducted this experiment twice, and more have done so since).
Light reps (>5 rep range, DE, 60%, whatever name you want to give it) doesn't matter how you do your pauses, the explosion is what counts. The pause a) conditions you to pause before you press b) focuses on bar acceleration after pausing c) incorporates all those pallbearer muscles, which do need to be developed to help the 4 pallbearers when it's a big guy in the box.
But let it be chiseled in stone that I gave up on developing a nice "beach" physique years ago, and a lot of what applies to "muscle development" in a beach physique sense has zero bearing on a powerlifter's perception of muscle development. That being said, my little reference to the lighter lifts, the same development can occur with the same weight and less reps.
Okay, up front and honest, I know my writing style leaves a lot to be desired. I probably worded something pretty bad, but it made sense to me. So if it makes no sense to YOU, PM me so we don't totally hijack George's thread.
God Bless!
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Post by George on Aug 10, 2007 14:15:06 GMT -5
Yea, I say we can (stop) this topic. Too much lead way and confusion. It's something that needs discussed in person were I can flail my arms and draw pictures...lol. If anyone else feels they have never seen results from speed work, however, let me know (PM preferrably).
Doug I'll send you a much shorter PM on why this even came up. It wasn't a challenge to the article as much as it was to the temptation of focusing on speed when it may not be as beneficial, or dedicating an entire day to it. (Max effort and Speed day as a weeks work, for example) and whether or not speed work would work if mixed with a heavier rep method.
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Post by George on Aug 13, 2007 19:27:31 GMT -5
Mon - August 13 - 2007 Bench
Barbell Bench (400 Buckeye) 135 for 2 x 10 warmup 260 x 8 290 x 6 320 x 4 360 x 3 370 x 2 (needed help with the second...will try a single with it) 370 x 1 (went easier than the first one last time) 320 x 6
Hit my first stall with the Buckeye. I'm going to try this routine again next Monday.
Incline Dumbbell Press 120's x 10 120's x 9 100's x 10 100's x 8
Decline Cambored Bar (Samsa's favorite) 245 x 8 245 x 8 245 x 8 245 x 9
Pushup's 2 x 25 (that was all I had in me)
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Post by George on Aug 15, 2007 17:24:12 GMT -5
Wed - August 15 - 2007 Squat
Barbell Squat 150 x 5 150 x 5 260 x 5 350 x 5 440 x 5 440 x 5 440 x 5 450 x 5 450 x 5
Last two sets were very hard and close to not going on the last three reps. These numbers worked out perfect for where I'm at right now. Hopefully in a few more weeks I can near the 480-500 range I was at a few months ago and give the 625 or 650 Smolov a run. I'm not even going to attempt it until 500 for multiple reps becomes more managable.
Front Squat 260 x 8 260 x 8 260 x 8
Walking Lunge 4 x 12 holding the 70's.
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Post by chancey on Aug 15, 2007 20:58:34 GMT -5
Dude you Rock! Very apparent that you've worked hard for everything you got. I think I'm gonna puke.
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